[SuperPoserDada]

Wouldn’t the BMW ecu know if anything was changed? All their itsa system would have to do is check cell by cell to see if there were any anomalies which should be very easy in 2024. I must admit though, I know nothing about this system!

They could technically write detection algorithms or something within the firmware/bios that tracks it and cannot be overriden, however, because I would guess something close to 98% of tunes that cause issues have very obvious signs (such as excessive rev limit) that it's not worth it to actually go out and spend to have this done. In addition, they KNOW these machines are destroyed by EPA and soon to come EU restrictions that they don't want to make it completely against warranty to tune the machines. Many dealers already help customers by installing BT/SLR etc.

@QuickSliver any advantage to using power supply Vs laptop plugged in wall outlet & set never to go to sleep to power ECU? In case of a power outage the laptop has a battery and would be less risky. Unless the power supply has backup power battery. I have always used a laptop to power ECU.

Actually someone at Woolich would know about flash detectability, they are the only ones who know what ECU tables they are changing.

z00, the laptop cannot power the ECU itself. It's writing (or reading) via the connection but it's not providing power (as far as how quick setup everything). He's using the device he posted to power the bike ECU using pos/neg connections regulated very carefully by the DC power source. I believe if you were really worried about it (which I am), you can get a portable power supply (that can be wall charged) and plug it in so that if the power goes out everything still stays up and doesn't brick your ECU. You can also for measure, plug in the laptop to the PPS just in case the battery on the laptop somehow in a million years fails and reverts back to it's charger for staying up (or you forget to charge the laptop and you keep it alive).

I am probably going to do some setup like that so that during a upcoming track day I can adjust the tune at the track and then next break between sessions flash the bike (taking the tank off and such as he mentions is pretty quick and simple after one or two times). It can be done within 40 minutes (including the flash) if you have everything setup and don't make mistakes while trying to reinstall the fairings because you are rushing. Maybe @QuickSliver can verify this is correct and not a totally crazy and stupid thing to try.

 

[QuickSliver]

They could technically write detection algorithms or something within the firmware/bios that tracks it and cannot be overriden, however, because I would guess something close to 98% of tunes that cause issues have very obvious signs (such as excessive rev limit) that it's not worth it to actually go out and spend to have this done. In addition, they KNOW these machines are destroyed by EPA and soon to come EU restrictions that they don't want to make it completely against warranty to tune the machines. Many dealers already help customers by installing BT/SLR etc.



z00, the laptop cannot power the ECU itself. It's writing (or reading) via the connection but it's not providing power (as far as how quick setup everything). He's using the device he posted to power the bike ECU using pos/neg connections regulated very carefully by the DC power source. I believe if you were really worried about it (which I am), you can get a portable power supply (that can be wall charged) and plug it in so that if the power goes out everything still stays up and doesn't brick your ECU. You can also for measure, plug in the laptop to the PPS just in case the battery on the laptop somehow in a million years fails and reverts back to it's charger for staying up (or you forget to charge the laptop and you keep it alive).

I am probably going to do some setup like that so that during a upcoming track day I can adjust the tune at the track and then next break between sessions flash the bike (taking the tank off and such as he mentions is pretty quick and simple after one or two times). It can be done within 40 minutes (including the flash) if you have everything setup and don't make mistakes while trying to reinstall the fairings because you are rushing. Maybe @QuickSliver can verify this is correct and not a totally crazy and stupid thing to try.

Correct, PC cannot power the ECU. A 12v battery will work. But it is important to make sure it is charged. At least 13v to be safe. You could even run black/red power wires to the battery on the bike. As you can see from the pictures on the DC power supply, the ECU is only drawing 0.37 amps. No connection to the ECU or power is required when making adjustments in the Woolich software. Only when flashing, which only takes a few minutes.

 

[SuperPoserDada]

Correct, PC cannot power the ECU. A 12v battery will work. But it is important to make sure it is charged. At least 13v to be safe. You could even run black/red power wires to the battery on the bike. As you can see from the pictures on the DC power supply, the ECU is only drawing 0.37 amps. No connection to the ECU or power is required when making adjustments in the Woolich software. Only when flashing, which only takes a few minutes.

Last question and maybe once I get the software it's redundant but might help others who are considering this. What software do you use to read the logs (via tail)? Does Woolich tuning software pull the logs from the bike and present them in human readable format or do you need another software to read the logs? Or do they come in table/csv/raw text I could run some data tools on and look at that way?

 

[jasonisdn]

Check out some of these for some eyes on example that you can follow along with.

That will lead you down some nice rabbit holes lol. David B seems to do decent videos and let's you learn from his mistakes and learning experiences.

 

[earlgsxbusa]

HI. @QuickSliver Looks like you have a nice setup!! I am looking to do the same if not similar type of tune. I just want the HP bought with my bike. I still have 400mi till i am done with break in period. I am following this thread to see the updates, but I may PM you for points/guidance on the Woolich tune. Ive read the BT has fried some pistons and engines.

I already have a full Arrow GP exhaust its loud now with pops and bangs. So i wont be attempting this tune for another 3 weeks or so.

Great info and pics and looking for more info.

Thanks
E

 

[QuickSliver]

HI. @QuickSliver Looks like you have a nice setup!! I am looking to do the same if not similar type of tune. I just want the HP bought with my bike. I still have 400mi till i am done with break in period. I am following this thread to see the updates, but I may PM you for points/guidance on the Woolich tune. Ive read the BT has fried some pistons and engines.

I already have a full Arrow GP exhaust its loud now with pops and bangs. So i wont be attempting this tune for another 3 weeks or so.

Great info and pics and looking for more info.

Thanks
E

Thank you. As far as bringing back the HP, this is what my post is about. Simply removing the EPA and factory restrictions. It definitely is not a BT. So, nothing is at risk. The tune maps that I attached at the beginning of the post is all you need. Just a few simple changes and its done. Then since you already have your own tuning software (Woolich), you can always make changes whenever you want, including flashing your ECU back to the stock file.

Yes, I have the pops/bangs from my full system Akra exhaust also. However, it only happens below 4k RPM. This may be due to the SAS opening under 4k RPM, but not sure. So, I am experimenting with the Timing maps to try and find which one can be tuned for higher RPM pop/bangs. But I tune for a rumble/boom type sound. So, tuning the timing takes fineness. So far, the Fuel Timing maps did nothing. So, I changed back to stock values and now I have tuned the Best Timing maps. Haven't had a chance to flash the ECU again to test it. But will report my findings if I am successful.

 

[QuickSliver]

Last question and maybe once I get the software it's redundant but might help others who are considering this. What software do you use to read the logs (via tail)? Does Woolich tuning software pull the logs from the bike and present them in human readable format or do you need another software to read the logs? Or do they come in table/csv/raw text I could run some data tools on and look at that way?

I have not tried to log yet. So I could not answer at the moment. I believe Auto Tune and logging are related.

 

[QuickSliver]

Just share the knowledge lol. I remember the learning curve back when I was using LT1 Edit. Tuning in speed density was fun to learn, and now it's time to take a refresher course. Thanks for sharing Quicksilver.

Oh yeah. Same here. I learned on the LT1 5th gen. So much more complicated compared to this BMW. I was a little pissed when I found out my Power Enrichment did not come on til after 5K RPM on my corvette. I changed it 2300 RPM and now my car takes off like a bat out of hell, if the rear wheels can hold traction. lol

 

[smash adams]

[...]Most of the blown engines have had Bren tunes. It's because he screws with the timing maps which can cause detonation in the cylinders. He also increases the RPM limit, which causes valve float. The BMWs have adaptive timing and do not need timing adjustments. The tuning for hire world is shady. Its why I got into tuning my own vehicles. I want it done correctly and safe.

[...]So, I am experimenting with the Timing maps to try and find which one can be tuned for higher RPM pop/bangs. But I tune for a rumble/boom type sound. So, tuning the timing takes fineness. So far, the Fuel Timing maps did nothing. So, I changed back to stock values and now I have tuned the Best Timing maps. Haven't had a chance to flash the ECU again to test it. But will report my findings if I am successful.

sorry i couldn't help myself 🤣

 

[QuickSliver]

sorry i couldn't help myself 🤣

Ah, yes my grasshopper. Prepare for some good old wisdom from Masa Sliver.

For pops/bangs, you retard timing in the first 3 rows/columns in the timing table, which ever one is the throttle valve cells, not RPM. Basically, when the throttle is at idle. Since you are removing timing from the stock values, no engine go boom boom. Advancing timing goes boom boom. 😁

 

[smash adams]

Ah, yes my grasshopper. Prepare for some good old wisdom from Masa Sliver.

For pops/bangs, you retard timing in the first 3 rows/columns in the timing table, which ever one is the throttle valve cells, not RPM. Basically, when the throttle is at idle. Since you are removing timing from the stock values, no engine go boom boom. Advancing timing goes boom boom. 😁

just don't go full retard

 

[QuickSliver]

just don't go full retard

Can't help it. Sometimes I just want to fit in with everyone else.

 

[SuperPoserDada]

Hey @QuickSliver just a quick piece of feedback. I found an interesting piece of information and sent in a couple questions and wasn't 100% happy with their response. If you are running a '23 or newer, you can actually connect either harness type 3 or 4 to the back/seat area (type 3 does initially require removing the rear fairings to set it up for the first time). They believed you would get better data from the Type 3 harness, however when I went and pulled data I got all the same data points but maybe it's more accurate but I kind of doubt it. Type four goes into the connection the dealership uses to likely update and check the bike (someone can correct me if I'm wrong but the amount of work and the fact type 3 connection hasn't been moved since they put my bike together makes me think they wouldn't go through the whole ordeal). What's really interesting is, with type 4, there's no issue, when the bike is off and I have log set to only read during engine on, it separates nicely into files to read. However, with type 3 (which I believe is what they recommend), if I turn off my bike while log box is connected to it, the bike will actually electronically turn back on again and display a ton of faults similar to how it would be when the ECU is flashing and it won't stop reading the data (even though the bike is supposed to be off). If you didn't realize that the first time or forgot you kept your log box connected and left your bike for a while, you could technically drain your bike and get stranded.

Did you have the same experiences so far with it?

[edit for terrible gramur]

 

[jasonisdn]

Hey @QuickSliver just a quick piece of feedback. I found an interesting piece of information and sent in a couple questions and wasn't 100% happy with their response. If you are running a '23 or newer, you can actually connect either harness type 3 or 4 to the back/seat area (type 3 does initially require removing the rear fairings to set it up for the first time). They believed you would get better data from the Type 3 harness, however when I went and pulled data I got all the same data points but maybe it's more accurate but I kind of doubt it. Type four goes into the connection the dealership uses to likely update and check the bike (someone can correct me if I'm wrong but the amount of work and the fact type 3 connection hasn't been moved since they put my bike together makes me think they wouldn't go through the whole ordeal). What's really interesting is, with type 4, there's no issue, when the bike is off and I have log set to only read during engine on, it separates nicely into files to read. However, with type 3 (which I believe is what they recommend), if I turn off my bike while log box is connected to it, the bike will actually electronically turn back on again and display a ton of faults similar to how it would be when the ECU is flashing and it won't stop reading the data (even though the bike is supposed to be off). If you didn't realize that the first time or forgot you kept your log box connected and left your bike for a while, you could technically drain your bike and get stranded.

Did you have the same experiences so far with it?

[edit for terrible gramur]

Thanks for sharing that, installing this weekend and that just helped me make up my mind.

 

[jasonisdn]

@QuickSliver How about the Closed Loop Target AFR Group Requested & Normal? Have you looked at adding fuel to those tables? is the areas of 14.7 especially, some of those transitions seem very non-linear.

 

[jasonisdn]

Yep here is the 2nd question of many, what in the Woolich software would trigger the throttle valves to be sitting at 85% when in the factory tune they are in the low 30% range. This causes a massive rev at startup. I have looked back through the tables and I did the adaptation resets but the 80% lingers. I could start with another factory bin and alter and write multiple times until I see the chnge occur, but I figured it would save time to ask lol.

 

[jasonisdn]

Well I flashed the ECU 1 area at a time. Looking for the issue to repeat on one of the areas I modified, and I was not able to replicate the issue. The tune is in the bike now and the EVT is sitting at 30% (give or take a point). I took it for a test ride, and I didn't get as aggressive as you did in the Torque maps, so I can still feel some of the 2nd gear hole. So I'll be digging in the stock bin more now that I have something stable to work with. Thanks @QuickSliver and everyone else for contributing to the cause!

 

[omasou]

FYI, the foundation course is free.

https://www.woolichracing.com/training.aspx

 

[SuperPoserDada]

Well I flashed the ECU 1 area at a time. Looking for the issue to repeat on one of the areas I modified, and I was not able to replicate the issue. The tune is in the bike now and the EVT is sitting at 30% (give or take a point). I took it for a test ride, and I didn't get as aggressive as you did in the Torque maps, so I can still feel some of the 2nd gear hole. So I'll be digging in the stock bin more now that I have something stable to work with. Thanks @QuickSliver and everyone else for contributing to the cause!

Hey @jasonisdn, I assume your maps are based off the initial ECU read correct? As in, the very very first absolute thing you did was read over your bin file from the bike into a file (and likely copy it and send another copy to fort knox for safe keeping)?

 

[jasonisdn]

Hey @jasonisdn, I assume your maps are based off the initial ECU read correct? As in, the very very first absolute thing you did was read over your bin file from the bike into a file (and likely copy it and send another copy to fort knox for safe keeping)?

Yes sir, I saved it in 3 locations. My network storage, my laptop and my OneDrive, just to be safe.

That little course, so far, seems to be a way to see how many harnesses they have for bikes that you don't own or plan on tuning.


I was able to find the table that manipulated the EVT to 80% and it was the EVT requested TQ. After returning it back to stock levels the EVT returned back to 30%. The bike runs great but I am just trying to tie down the method that BMW is using to restrict 2nd gear before 9k.