[jasonisdn]

Hey thanks for sharing this Quicksliver, it might make me stop looking at the kit and buy it lol. So are you going to use or are currently using their wide band and data logger? I was looking at that auto-tune package they have.

 

[jasonisdn]

Damn you, you’re going to make me go down this rabbit hole! I was perfectly content just popping the BT flash in and moving on with life. Now I am going to spend the next 6 months doing everything I can to become a professional tuner.

I agree with you though, I don’t need 205hp to the rear wheel, I’m perfectly content with the bike handling the timing safely and ending up with 195hp. I just want this thing to have its balls back! The s1000rr does not deserve to be a eunuch!!

Just share the knowledge lol. I remember the learning curve back when I was using LT1 Edit. Tuning in speed density was fun to learn, and now it's time to take a refresher course. Thanks for sharing Quicksilver.

 

[jasonisdn]

Check out some of these for some eyes on example that you can follow along with.

That will lead you down some nice rabbit holes lol. David B seems to do decent videos and let's you learn from his mistakes and learning experiences.

 

[jasonisdn]

Hey @QuickSliver just a quick piece of feedback. I found an interesting piece of information and sent in a couple questions and wasn't 100% happy with their response. If you are running a '23 or newer, you can actually connect either harness type 3 or 4 to the back/seat area (type 3 does initially require removing the rear fairings to set it up for the first time). They believed you would get better data from the Type 3 harness, however when I went and pulled data I got all the same data points but maybe it's more accurate but I kind of doubt it. Type four goes into the connection the dealership uses to likely update and check the bike (someone can correct me if I'm wrong but the amount of work and the fact type 3 connection hasn't been moved since they put my bike together makes me think they wouldn't go through the whole ordeal). What's really interesting is, with type 4, there's no issue, when the bike is off and I have log set to only read during engine on, it separates nicely into files to read. However, with type 3 (which I believe is what they recommend), if I turn off my bike while log box is connected to it, the bike will actually electronically turn back on again and display a ton of faults similar to how it would be when the ECU is flashing and it won't stop reading the data (even though the bike is supposed to be off). If you didn't realize that the first time or forgot you kept your log box connected and left your bike for a while, you could technically drain your bike and get stranded.

Did you have the same experiences so far with it?

[edit for terrible gramur]

Thanks for sharing that, installing this weekend and that just helped me make up my mind.

 

[jasonisdn]

@QuickSliver How about the Closed Loop Target AFR Group Requested & Normal? Have you looked at adding fuel to those tables? is the areas of 14.7 especially, some of those transitions seem very non-linear.

 

[jasonisdn]

Yep here is the 2nd question of many, what in the Woolich software would trigger the throttle valves to be sitting at 85% when in the factory tune they are in the low 30% range. This causes a massive rev at startup. I have looked back through the tables and I did the adaptation resets but the 80% lingers. I could start with another factory bin and alter and write multiple times until I see the chnge occur, but I figured it would save time to ask lol.

 

[jasonisdn]

Well I flashed the ECU 1 area at a time. Looking for the issue to repeat on one of the areas I modified, and I was not able to replicate the issue. The tune is in the bike now and the EVT is sitting at 30% (give or take a point). I took it for a test ride, and I didn't get as aggressive as you did in the Torque maps, so I can still feel some of the 2nd gear hole. So I'll be digging in the stock bin more now that I have something stable to work with. Thanks @QuickSliver and everyone else for contributing to the cause!

 

[jasonisdn]

Hey @jasonisdn, I assume your maps are based off the initial ECU read correct? As in, the very very first absolute thing you did was read over your bin file from the bike into a file (and likely copy it and send another copy to fort knox for safe keeping)?

Yes sir, I saved it in 3 locations. My network storage, my laptop and my OneDrive, just to be safe.

That little course, so far, seems to be a way to see how many harnesses they have for bikes that you don't own or plan on tuning.


I was able to find the table that manipulated the EVT to 80% and it was the EVT requested TQ. After returning it back to stock levels the EVT returned back to 30%. The bike runs great but I am just trying to tie down the method that BMW is using to restrict 2nd gear before 9k.

 

[jasonisdn]

Ok let me try to explain this in more detail, I have issues at work with explaining stuff to coworkers because I am impatient and a little bit of a smart ass, even when I am not trying to be. So please tolerate my bad habits for this issue.
I am flashing my bike without issue. I rode the bike today with the tune in it. I am happy with its direction and grateful to everyone who has added information and has brought up good questions that make me think and dig deeper into the data. Thank you @QuickSliver for helping me spend my money lol.

There is 1, just 1, table that is not working for me the way it does for QuickSilver, and that is the ETV-Requested Torque. This is the table in factory from my '24 S1Krr.

If you use the table as is, you will get this result from your Hex 911.

Please notice the Throttle Valve Senor both 1 and 2, this is in a non-running state, just the bike powered on for scanning purposes. Yes, the adaptations have been reset at this point, if you are wondering. The adaptations did not alter/resolve this issue. The picture below is the bike running on said tune during that same scan.

Once I flash the ECU with the below values on the ETV-Requested Torque..Which is what QuickSilver can do with his bike

The values on the throttle valve sensors change dramatically.

If you crank the bike with this setting it will welcome you with something that sounds like a dragon dying (watching Game of Thrones with the wife, sue me lol). In other words a rev bomb. I, while also typing this, just added 50% to the ETV- Requested Tourqe Table to see how the Throttle valve sensors like it. So maybe all of that data will help everyone understand I am not trying to figure out to flash, I am trying to figure out how a table that needs ETV and RPMs to choose how much TQ will be delivered can affect the EVT so much at idle or when not even running. If you feel like I have left anything out please ask me to clarify. That is the setup I have in the kitchen for flashing until the wife kills me

 

[jasonisdn]

By having the throttle valve- requested torque at 100 at such a low rpm (starting) could be it letting way to much air in and forcing the rpm higher? That’s similar to what happens when you mess with a carburetor and open the air too much, it’s causes the rpm to shoot up. I also could be an idiot?!

You, good sir, are not and idiot, you are correct. This is what the table looks like now, and I just ran the bike through a heat cycle.I might be able to get a ride in tomorrow, but I live in central NC and we have a case of the leaky skies.

 

[jasonisdn]

Slight update and issue.
The table listed above triggered the bike to go into limp mode. When I pulled the ECU out of the bike to adjust the table I developed a issue with the Woolich software communication to the ECU. It will state that "The ECU VIN is not available..." But I can still read and pull the VIN from the ECU. I contacted their support team and they asked me to read the ECU. They asked that I try to write that same Bin back to the ECU. That test failed with the same error code. They then asked me to pull the VIN itself and take screenshots of all of the output of said tests. So now that all of those basic tests have failed they have elevated the ticket to the level 3 & development team.

"Hi JASON,

Not a problem, thanks for sending the photos and trying the test.

We received the bin file and it looks to be intact but I will ask the development team to take a look.

Your support ticket has been assigned to the Support Level 3 and the Development Team.

Due to the technical nature of the ticket, it may require a significant amount of time and effort to investigate. The Development Team will not be able to respond with ongoing status updates, and will only respond if they require additional information, have something they would like you to test, or to notify you they have released an update to solve the issue."

 

[jasonisdn]

Damn that sucks man, I’m sorry to hear that. It’s never easy being a pioneer! Hopefully they can get things straightened out so you can get back to riding! I hope it’s something stupid and easy to fix because if I’d still like to go this route

I would think it is simple, they will find the issue in time. It was going well until that point lol.

 

[jasonisdn]

It’s weird that adjusting the tables would somehow wipe out the vin?! It’s such a weird problem!

Damn those guys are quick, much respect for the Woolich team. Here is their reply.

P.S. I already tested it and the write was successful.

Hi Jason
We have found the issue, this particular ECU is storing the VIN at a different location in the EEPROM, we have updated the code to check for this and it should now work allowing you to write to the ECU. This will be available in the next release of WRT which will go out in the next couple of hours.

 

[jasonisdn]

I wonder why it let you do the first couple writes without any issue?! You would think if the vin was in the wrong area from the start you would have had this problem on the first write. How many times did you flash before you ran into this issue?

I was thinking the same thing, but I work in IT and I know glitches happen so I wrote it off. 11 flashes before the test flash this morning, that worked, so sitting at 12 currently. Time to pull the timing tables and put them into Excel and start comparing gears.

 

[jasonisdn]

Jason, you are awesome for posting all of this. Really appreciate it and I've been really impressed by support from Woolich as well. Can you answer the following quick things?
1. Did you just cut off the ends of the wire you got with the Kungber and attach it to the leads provided by Woolich (or did Woolich send you more than just 2 leads and the plastic housing for connecting the power)?
2. If you did/did not do the cut off, did you just use 12 gauge wire?
3. Did you feel it was easier just pulling the ECU out of the bike, or was that done so you didn't have to tune in the garage? I am leaning over to leaving it seated and connecting while it's just unplugged from the bike.
4. Were the table issues above you were having at all related to the tables/data off the ECU not being in the location they were expecting by chance?

I think given both our positive customer support experiences with them, I will probably try to tune the bike even though it's not end of season yet.

Well I share the good and the bad so people know what to expect and I try not to sugar coat anything, my wife doesn't like that approach sometimes lol.

1. Yes, I cut off the alligator clip end and put on the ends that Woolich supplied. Only 1 set of ends and 1 connector were supplied to power the ECU.

2. See above

3. I removed the ECU because my garage is not cooled and it sucks in there since the sun heats the door to the temperature of hell lol.

4. They didn't offer any other information other than what I shared and I didn't ask. I find it weird that I wrote to the ECU 11 times before the issue presented itself. Yet it wrote to the ECU perfectly fine this morning. I have been slammed at work today and haven't had much time to look at the timing tables. Yet I am hoping the tuner from FL will call me and answer some questions, I am more than willing to pay for his knowledge on the tables of this ECU.

 

[jasonisdn]

Guys I just wanna say this might be the single most productive thread on the subject of tuning we’ve ever had on this board!

No in all seriousness, this is exactly what I had hoped for with Woolich releasing this for our bikes. I had imagined the community collaborating, sharing maps, their successes and failures, and helping others troubleshoot. This is clearly more involved than a buying a canned flash, and while I can turn a wrench all day, I’m completely clueless when it comes to the tuning side of it. I can imagine I’m not the only one who might be intimidated by the DIY nature of this, so shout out to Quicksilver for sharing this info, as well as to Jason reporting on his experience.

Needless to say I will be following this discussion with great intrigue, hopefully it becomes a mega thread as more of us venture down this path.

LOL Well, they have a MapShare on the Woolich site and you can grab others' submitted maps and then compare all of the tables, to see everything they modified. Quckisilvers looks pretty much like the one I grabbed from there to look at. Minus some changes to 2 fueling tables. He even had the table that I am having issues with maxed out as QuickSilver does, so I might have an underlying issue from something else. Again thank you @QuickSliver for opening our eyes.

 

[jasonisdn]

It would be nice if we had a liaison from woolich on the forum. If I ran that company I would have a guy on all the major forums.

You have a 24 right? Us model? I wonder how many different Ecus there are out there?

Yes Sir, '24 and US. for the amount of different ECU part numbers, https://www.woolichracing.com/produ.../products/bmw/s1000rr/2024/1408/2019-2024-bmw-s1000rr-log-box-b-v3-package.aspx
it does a read to see if it is compatible and if it isn't you can upload your read and they will work to add it.

 

[jasonisdn]

I always do a knock sensor reset too if I make any fuel map changes, since the timing maps are determined by the knock sensors.

Yeah I do all of the adaptation resets after every flash. I don't have to work on Friday and I plan on getting more done to the bike.

If something can go wrong it's going to go wrong for me. I typically have the worst luck. BMW took my 23 back because of the connecting rods failing the heat treatment process. There are only 14 bikes in the nation that were affected by that and of course I found one of them lol.

 

[jasonisdn]

I got to test a tune this afternoon, and I am off tomorrow so I should have some free time if the weather plays nice. The tune is good but I am going to add more to the bottom of 2nd and try to get a few high speed pulls in tomorrow to see how it pulls. I did not mess with any timing tables. Just like @QuickSliver did ETV torque tables, AFR Closed loop and a few other AFR tables to reduce heat. I don't care for any cell that says 14.7, it just makes me feel bad for the bike. I don't have a dead spot down in 2nd but I think I can get away with adding more TQ, as when I stretched 2nd out the front started to come up around 11k I think. I ran a log, or I hope I did the light patterns were blinking correctly. Going to check it in a bit. Thank you to everyone who has added knowledge and those who ask good questions to make us all think.

Oh and someone is take screen shots and sending them to Troy lol, but Troy is a nice guy. I can't hate on a business model that works and they did always help me with my questions and concerns. Expensive...yes,but so is a happy meal these days 🤣 so make sure to screen shot this one

P.S. I was wrong, it wasn't Troy.

 

[jasonisdn]

Who is Troy?

BT Moto in California, he is the one doing all of the YouTube videos and stuff. I am guessing it's Troy, names were never exchanged in the emails, but he did say he was going to make a video about a clutch switch being bad. How that can cause shifting issues, so I put 2 and 2 together. I could be wrong, it has happened before.