[omasou]

Oh, no no. You will catch your ECU on fire with that thing. You need one of these... Amazon.com

Is that one good for the car and motorcycle?

 

[QuickSliver]

Is that one good for the car and motorcycle?

Yes. You are only providing power to the ecu, not the whole bike. You need to be able to fine tune the voltage and it must stay steady. This will do that. Plus, you can use it on other projects, should you need a DC power source.

 

[SuperPoserDada]

Yes. You are only providing power to the ecu, not the whole bike. You need to be able to fine tune the voltage and it must stay steady. This will do that. Plus, you can use it on other projects, should you need a DC power source.

Hey QuickSliver, call me stupid on this sort of thing... have a few questions and I think I'm good...

Is the main issue direct access to the ECU and powering the harness while flashing the bike? If it was through the OBD port would we need to power it still or would it get power through the port and actual bike battery?

Does the '23/'24 S1000RR's provide some engine logging natively in the ECU that we can pull via Woolich or is this really not that important as you stated due to the way the bike self tunes based on it's O2 sensor and such?

Did you ask them if there are immediately plans on trying to get the OBD port flash working?

I just wanted to thank you a ton, this looks like the route I'm taking vs crashing due to unpredictable torque. I felt disgusting even thinking about going with BT, and I want to be able to customize things over time without having to pay SLR each time (otherwise I would have 100% went with Frank because he's a good dude).

 

[QuickSliver]

Hey QuickSliver, call me stupid on this sort of thing... have a few questions and I think I'm good...

Is the main issue direct access to the ECU and powering the harness while flashing the bike? If it was through the OBD port would we need to power it still or would it get power through the port and actual bike battery?

Does the '23/'24 S1000RR's provide some engine logging natively in the ECU that we can pull via Woolich or is this really not that important as you stated due to the way the bike self tunes based on it's O2 sensor and such?

Did you ask them if there are immediately plans on trying to get the OBD port flash working?

I just wanted to thank you a ton, this looks like the route I'm taking vs crashing due to unpredictable torque. I felt disgusting even thinking about going with BT, and I want to be able to customize things over time without having to pay SLR each time (otherwise I would have 100% went with Frank because he's a good dude).

Is the main issue direct access to the ECU and powering the harness while flashing the bike? If it was through the OBD port would we need to power it still or would it get power through the port and actual bike battery?

- Yes. Must use supplied bench harness to connect to ECU. The harness has a connector for supplying power. OBD cannot be used to read/write, so power to the bike is not required, just power to the ECU.

Does the '23/'24 S1000RR's provide some engine logging natively in the ECU that we can pull via Woolich or is this really not that important as you stated due to the way the bike self tunes based on it's O2 sensor and such?

- Yes. The log box can be connected to the high-speed data connector port under the tail, behind the seat. Can connect to log box via USB to PC to read live data or connect PC to log box after a ride to view data log.

Did you ask them if there are immediately plans on trying to get the OBD port flash working?

- No. All year models state 'Non OBD II' in the software. So, I assume it won't happen.

Once you go through the first time of connecting and getting familiar with the menu and parameters, it becomes easy after that. Yes, you will save a lot of money. You only pay once for the hardware and the one included ECU flash. Then you can tune and make adjustments whenever you want without having to pay every time. If you want to tune other bikes/ECUs, you have to pay Woolich for each unlock which is $100. You could charge a friend to tune his bike for $800. Only pay $100 for the ECU unlock and then pocket the remaining $700...just like Bren does. 😆 Or if you really want to be a slimy little turd, do a partial tune and call it a 'Stage 1'. Then offer a 'Stage 2' for another couple hundred dollars and just simply remove the rest of the restrictions. Throw in a 'special' air filter or 'air temp sensor relocation kit' gimmick to make it seem valuable.

 

[BikesNhoes]

Only engine mod is removal of stock exhaust and exhaust valve. This is a simple street tune. All it does is restore full power from the factory/EPA limitations and reduce the high engine temperatures. Perform at your own risk. I bear no responsibility for anyone that does their own tuning. As you can see from the images, the bike is very restricted from factory. Suck it, Bren.

Would this be considered a full closed loop tune? Also, did you mess with the timing at all? Will the bike automatically advance the timing due to the extra fuel? I am considering this method!

edit- never mind, I see you can only do the closed loop running up to 9k rpm. Is there anyway to do the higher rpm ranges with this unit as well?

 

[QuickSliver]

Would this be considered a full closed loop tune? Also, did you mess with the timing at all? Will the bike automatically advance the timing due to the extra fuel? I am considering this method!

edit- never mind, I see you can only do the closed loop running up to 9k rpm. Is there anyway to do the higher rpm ranges with this unit as well?

From what I can tell, there is a Closed Loop AFR map, and a Fuel map. So I'm assuming the fuel map is the 'open loop' and is based off the closed loop AFR map. Not certain, but thats why I increased the Fuel map by 5%.

The ECU will increase timing according to the Ignition maps. Each map has its own maximum timing values. If knock is detected, it will switch to the next best map. The Optimal fuel maps have pretty high timing values. In my opinion, I would not change anything. The knock sensors are only calibrated to detect so much knock (noise). Extreme knock (loud noise) is filtered out.

Yes, you can go max RPM closed loop. 'Before Shift' means before 9k RPM when before the cam shift. 'After Shift' is after the cam shift, which goes up to 14k RPM.

 

[BikesNhoes]

The way my tune is set up, is basically for full control of the available power of the engine. My right hand is controlling the power of the engine and not the ECU, in a sense. Don't confuse the 100% torque with instability. Just because you may be at 100% throttle and torque, doesn't mean the engine is at 100% of its full torque at all RPMs. You're not getting 80ft lbs of torque at 2k RPM. The engine is not physically capable of it at that RPM. If you are in neutral, the engine cannot rev up unless you twist the throttle. The ETV Gear Limit is just that, a limit. It just limits the opening of the throttle relative to twist grip position. At 100% of the whole map, the limits are now gone, and the twist grip is at 1:1 with the throttle. Example - 50% twist grip = 50% throttle, as before it might have only been 50% twist grip = 30% throttle.

Only the intake cam can shift. It acts as a mid RPM cam at lower RPMs and when it switches over, it acts a high RPM cam. It is not a variable camshaft like in cars. So I don't believe the cam can be tuned and it wouldn't make sense to mess with it unless you changed out the airbox and effected airflow.

Yes, the non-curve/non-linear numbers in the factory settings are jacked up and make no sense. Maybe a Ducati spy got in there and messed it all up because they are losing in WSBK. haha. Real tuning isn't just about HP numbers. Its about making an engine run at is full potential and efficiency. Alot of it is due to EPA regulations and manufactures finding any way they can to meet those requirements. Of course manufacturers will never inform their customers of this, because no one would buy their cars. That is where the tuner world comes in.

Not sure about launch control as I have never used it. It is awful for the gear box and clutch. As far as engine performance in my case, the bike is wicked fast. Throttle feels so much better and linear. I've done several WOT pulls through all the gears and the bike is just incredible. Just about everything I have done is what other tuners are doing, such as a Bren tune. Except the B/T partially tunes the bike and he calls it a '1 stage. Then if you buy his '2 stage', he just removes the rest of the map restrictions. He's a scam. His 'velocity stacks' are just a gimmick to make people believe he did some super tune. He is basically double dipping on just one tune. Most of the blown engines have had Bren tunes. It's because he screws with the timing maps which can cause detonation in the cylinders. He also increases the RPM limit, which causes valve float. The BMWs have adaptive timing and do not need timing adjustments. The tuning for hire world is shady. Its why I got into tuning my own vehicles. I want it done correctly and safe.

Damn you, you’re going to make me go down this rabbit hole! I was perfectly content just popping the BT flash in and moving on with life. Now I am going to spend the next 6 months doing everything I can to become a professional tuner.

I agree with you though, I don’t need 205hp to the rear wheel, I’m perfectly content with the bike handling the timing safely and ending up with 195hp. I just want this thing to have its balls back! The s1000rr does not deserve to be a eunuch!!

 

[QuickSliver]

Damn you, you’re going to make me go down this rabbit hole! I was perfectly content just popping the BT flash in and moving on with life. Now I am going to spend the next 6 months doing everything I can to become a professional tuner.

I agree with you though, I don’t need 205hp to the rear wheel, I’m perfectly content with the bike handling the timing safely and ending up with 195hp. I just want this thing to have its balls back! The s1000rr does not deserve to be a eunuch!!

Glad I could help. 😁

 

[jasonisdn]

Damn you, you’re going to make me go down this rabbit hole! I was perfectly content just popping the BT flash in and moving on with life. Now I am going to spend the next 6 months doing everything I can to become a professional tuner.

I agree with you though, I don’t need 205hp to the rear wheel, I’m perfectly content with the bike handling the timing safely and ending up with 195hp. I just want this thing to have its balls back! The s1000rr does not deserve to be a eunuch!!

Just share the knowledge lol. I remember the learning curve back when I was using LT1 Edit. Tuning in speed density was fun to learn, and now it's time to take a refresher course. Thanks for sharing Quicksilver.

 

[BikesNhoes]

I wonder if it would be harder for BMW to deny a warranty claim if you left the majority of the tuning alone and just tuned out the epa bullsh**. If the timing and a/f ratio was untouched along with the stock redline then you didn’t really change anything other than give back the torque they stole through the electronic throttle and air flappers. I’m sure they would still deny if you somehow blew up your engine but seems like you’d have a better court case if you wanted to go that route. The $$ spent on the lawsuit would cost more than getting the bike fixed lol but I wonder how it would go.

 

[QuickSliver]

I wonder if it would be harder for BMW to deny a warranty claim if you left the majority of the tuning alone and just tuned out the epa bullsh**. If the timing and a/f ratio was untouched along with the stock redline then you didn’t really change anything other than give back the torque they stole through the electronic throttle and air flappers. I’m sure they would still deny if you somehow blew up your engine but seems like you’d have a better court case if you wanted to go that route. The $$ spent on the lawsuit would cost more than getting the bike fixed lol but I wonder how it would go.

Yes. I was thinking that also as I was making the changes to my tune before I did the ECU flash. No lean conditions and timing untouched. Definitely never increase the RPM limit. You'll get slappy valves. haha

 

[SuperPoserDada]

...

Once you go through the first time of connecting and getting familiar with the menu and parameters, it becomes easy after that. Yes, you will save a lot of money. You only pay once for the hardware and the one included ECU flash. Then you can tune and make adjustments whenever you want without having to pay every time. If you want to tune other bikes/ECUs, you have to pay Woolich for each unlock which is $100. You could charge a friend to tune his bike for $800. Only pay $100 for the ECU unlock and then pocket the remaining $700...just like Bren does. 😆 Or if you really want to be a slimy little turd, do a partial tune and call it a 'Stage 1'. Then offer a 'Stage 2' for another couple hundred dollars and just simply remove the rest of the restrictions. Throw in a 'special' air filter or 'air temp sensor relocation kit' gimmick to make it seem valuable.

Honestly, the hardest part of this entire thing is hooking the harness to the ECU (taking things physically apart). For potential at-track tuning, would a portable backup battery system be sufficient for supplying power to the the above DC source you recommended (and likely to the laptop just in case the battery on it were to fail during ECU write)? I would likely leave road and rain completely untouched (at the track) and work on race/dynamic modes base on an initial couple of sessions.

You do realize, you are going to get us all in trouble with our significant others/friends/jobs by stealing time away for this stuff.

 

[z00]

Can anyone confirm if Woolich flash can be detected by dealerships? I know hand held tuners (BT, SLR, etc...) update a flash counter that dealerships can check if an ECU is flashed.
A full write of ECU tables flash won't be detected with above or one that keeps flash counter intact. I tried asking Woolich, but they won't confirm it lol.

 

[QuickSliver]

Honestly, the hardest part of this entire thing is hooking the harness to the ECU (taking things physically apart). For potential at-track tuning, would a portable backup battery system be sufficient for supplying power to the the above DC source you recommended (and likely to the laptop just in case the battery on it were to fail during ECU write)? I would likely leave road and rain completely untouched (at the track) and work on race/dynamic modes base on an initial couple of sessions.

You do realize, you are going to get us all in trouble with our significant others/friends/jobs by stealing time away for this stuff.

Yes. As I'm typing this, I'm taking a little break from just now pulling out my ECU again to flash a crackle/rumble exhaust tune. It sucks having to do the work every time. But I also use a power drill with a T25 torx bit to make quick work of the fairings. Since you or I don't have a dyno, we have to do our pulls/testing on the street or track to check the bike. If you know someone or can find a dyno to rent for a reasonable price, I'd go that route if you are looking for a dialed in flash for your bike. If the bike is on a dyno, you can leave the fairings off and just plug/unplug the Woolich during any flash adjustments.

The battery DC power supply works as well. Just make sure it is fully charged. Having the power source or laptop die or get disconnected during the 'write' could brick your ECU. Not certain, but I wouldn't chance it. With HP Tuners for cars, loss of power during a flash does brick ECUs. Also, make sure your laptop will not turn off or go sleep for any reason. You don't have to steal away any time from others, just take them with you. They can fetch your tools. 😆

Before I put everything back together on my bike, I will take some pics and upload them here for everyone to see my setup and what it involves.

 

[zx10guy]

Yes. As I'm typing this, I'm taking a little break from just now pulling out my ECU again to flash a crackle/rumble exhaust tune. It sucks having to do the work every time. But I also use a power drill with a T25 torx bit to make quick work of the fairings. Since you or I don't have a dyno, we have to do our pulls/testing on the street or track to check the bike. If you know someone or can find a dyno to rent for a reasonable price, I'd go that route if you are looking for a dialed in flash for your bike. If the bike is on a dyno, you can leave the fairings off and just plug/unplug the Woolich during any flash adjustments.

The battery DC power supply works as well. Just make sure it is fully charged. Having the power source or laptop die or get disconnected during the 'write' could brick your ECU. Not certain, but I wouldn't chance it. With HP Tuners for cars, loss of power during a flash does brick ECUs. Also, make sure your laptop will not turn off or go sleep for any reason. You don't have to steal away any time from others, just take them with you. They can fetch your tools. 😆

Before I put everything back together on my bike, I will take some pics and upload them here for everyone to see my setup and what it involves.

How long does it take to upload a flash? Do you have a guess as to how much power draw is required to keep the DME powered up during the flash?

I ask because flashing a BMW car does require a fairly beefy power supply that can sustain the power needed during the flash for an extended period. I haven't done it myself but I've heard it's not unusual for a flash to take an hour or more.

 

[QuickSliver]

Can anyone confirm if Woolich flash can be detected by dealerships? I know hand held tuners (BT, SLR, etc...) update a flash counter that dealerships can check if an ECU is flashed.
A full write of ECU tables flash won't be detected with above or one that keeps flash counter intact. I tried asking Woolich, but they won't confirm it lol.

Honestly, you would have to know an insider at BMW or a dealership to get a legit answer.

 

[QuickSliver]

Only engine mod is removal of stock exhaust and exhaust valve. This is a simple street tune. All it does is restore full power from the factory/EPA limitations and reduce the high engine temperatures. Perform at your own risk. I bear no responsibility for anyone that does their own tuning. As you can see from the images, the bike is very restricted from factory. Suck it, Bren.

 

[QuickSliver]

How long does it take to upload a flash? Do you have a guess as to how much power draw is required to keep the DME powered up during the flash?

I ask because flashing a BMW car does require a fairly beefy power supply that can sustain the power needed during the flash for an extended period. I haven't done it myself but I've heard it's not unusual for a flash to take an hour or more.

A few minutes. Its just the ECU getting power. You are not turning the ignition key to power the bike.

 

[z00]

@QuickSliver any advantage to using power supply Vs laptop plugged in wall outlet & set never to go to sleep to power ECU? In case of a power outage the laptop has a battery and would be less risky. Unless the power supply has backup power battery. I have always used a laptop to power ECU.

Actually someone at Woolich would know about flash detectability, they are the only ones who know what ECU tables they are changing.

 

[BikesNhoes]

@QuickSliver any advantage to using power supply Vs laptop plugged in wall outlet & set never to go to sleep to power ECU? In case of a power outage the laptop has a battery and would be less risky. Unless the power supply has backup power battery. I have always used a laptop to power ECU.

Actually someone at Woolich would know about flash detectability, they are the only ones who know what ECU tables they are changing.

Wouldn’t the BMW ecu know if anything was changed? All their itsa system would have to do is check cell by cell to see if there were any anomalies which should be very easy in 2024. I must admit though, I know nothing about this system!