The simplest way is to hold them both in your hand and the heaviest is the newest.

 

wow that great to know ,im sure at # 847 im a early one . So thay wont inter-change ? HOW MANY MILES AND HOW MANY OIL CHANGES WITH WHAT ?

 

The red/green/yellow crankshaft has about 3000 miles on it - probably somewhere between 10-15 oil changes, always 5W40 synthetic.

 

heavier crank later, but should be interchangeable plastiguage? I have not had good results with repairing cranks, but maybe it was just my machine shop. (spun the same bearing again a little while after) good luck

 

That new crank won't fit in the old cases without a bit of modification to the engine cases. Not sure if it is the top or bottom case but the new crank web will prevent putting the halves together. You will need to grind a bit of one of the case dividers is what had to be modified (if I remember correctly).

If you don't put the correct bearing shells in the bike you might as well not put the engine back together. If they are too tight you will burn the crank. If they are too loose you will bleed a lot of oil pressure off, possibly spin another bearing, or damage top end from low oil pressure. In other words suck it up and pay for the correct ones.

Pretty sure repairing the crank would be more expensive than the $400 dollars in new bearings. If it is at all possible. They would have to weld metal onto the crank and then machine it off perfectly. Not sure who you can trust to do it correctly or if it is even cost effective. I'm sure you can find someone to attempt it but do or can they do it correctly.

 

That new crank won't fit in the old cases without a bit of modification to the engine cases.

The new crankshaft butts against this spot on the bottom half of the case. I'm going to grind it down using a Dremel and hope that I don't regret it!

Regarding weight - I don't know the difference between the two. I put them on a box-scale and they both register 19.0 lbs - presumably because the scale isn't accurate enough to identify the difference.

I was hoping that I could reuse most of the bearings if I reuse the crankshaft, but if I need to replace them all then I definitely won't bother repairing the older crank. Now to find a dealer who won't charge me full price on parts... I'll post who I wind up buying from.

 

Call APE (661) 256-7309 if they can't fix it they can probably point you to someone that can.

 

crank repair

Thanks for posting pics of the new crank, I have been wondering what it looks like. The best crank repair people in the business are the guys at Falicon (727) 797-2468. They can repair your spun bearing, no problem. It will be much cheaper then buying a new crank but it's standard practice to install new rod and main bearings when rebuilding a engine.
Good luck.

 

Just thinking out loud here but is the extra disk on the new crank just a flywheel to add a little rotating mass to change some of the low end power characteristics of the engine? If so and depending on your needs couldn't it be cut down to lighten the crank and add a little acceleration to the engine on the top end at the same time give you the needed case clearance?

 

This is outside of my area of knowledge - reassembling LEGO-pieces per the manual is what I understand. To do what you're suggesting would require some pretty accurate lathe work and balancing.

As I recall, the new crankshaft was homologated per request of the WSBK teams, but I don't remember the benefits. Actually, a quick search on this forum pointed me at another post where nickg1977 said that it improved reliability and smoothed performance.

I won't complain about ++reliability.

 

It is the new "heavier" crank. Forget how much they added but it is for better driveability--at least that's what they say. They changed them at the request of the World Superbike racers. I would Dremel the case as you have mentioned. When we replaced a crank on an older bike this is what we did--the other tech actually--to fit the new style crank. Not much needs to be taken off.

 

Well, back in March I spun a bearing. .)

Do you have any ideas as to what caused the spun bearing?

Great pics and great thread by the way!

 

Do you have any ideas as to what caused the spun bearing?

I don't know what caused the spun bearing - there are too many variables. But I do know the situation that happened when the bearing spun:

I was going about 160MPH down the front straight. I started braking, pulled in the clutch, down-shifted TWICE from Fifth to Third gear, then released the clutch. The engine spun down and I drifted off the outside of turn 1 (quite slowly and safely, I might add).

It was about half-way through my second session for the day, Saturday, April 23, around 10AM. It failed with the odometer around 2500. Around 2000, the bike was low-sided pretty hard by the prior owner, at which point it was sold to me - but these are numbers from memory, not notes, so don't quote me on it.

After I pushed it back to the paddock, it wouldn't start. I plugged in a car battery and cranked and cranked and cranked... and cranked some more... and it started! (This was a mistake to do, btw.) I brought it back on track for two laps but could hear the 'ticking' from the engine indicative of the spun bearing.

 

Same here ,what causes this to happen ? not warming up / or over revving to long / it seems it ran great for a while i take it .

 

What is a spun bearing?

Actually, I've heard the term used before but I never knew what a "spun bearing" was until just now:

Literally, you can see that the bearing shells inside the connecting-rod-#4 has spun and is no longer aligned correctly. I think that the friction between the spinning bearing and the conrod causes it to heat up, which causes the conrod bearing cap to discolor (you can see it in this picture - it's not a shadow), the bearing to discolor and warp, and the journal on the camshaft to overheat.

The "spun bearings" literally just fall out of the connecting rod without even loosening the screws, whereas the bearings normally require some prying to remove. This is controlled by the small tabs that I circled in this image - it's not easy to see here, but this tab is broken on both halves of the bad bearing. The bad bearing is also warped and discolored compared to used, "good" bearings.

Lastly, I noticed that all four connecting rods from this Feb-2010 engine have the letter "S" printed on one corner. The four rods from the new-crankshaft-engine are labeled "U". I don't know what significance this has, nor do I know if this means I should reuse the slightly-burnt-"S"-rod instead of the relatively-normal-"U"-rod.

 

If you re-use the old rod I'd have it inspected and change the bolts as a minimum and if you use the new rod be sure to have it weight matched with the other three for balance.

 

If you use the old rod,you MUST have it checked for ovality and,if necessary,re-sized(a quite inexpensive repair).
Personally,I would use the later crank complete with it's rods and bearings-but I would prefer to use new bearings for peace of mind.However I would use the old pistons/rings.

 

I'd vote also on using some Plastigauge to find how how the bearings fit.

Genuine Plastigauge - How It Works

The factory may have screwed them up initially, not that BMW ever messes something up on assembly like stripping out some bolt hole in my GT clutch cover where the engine case aluminum came out along with the bolt.

Check to make sure the tang depth on the bearing is good too. I've seen some really shallow ones on car engines.


Mack

 

I'll use the four conecting rods from the new engine - the "U" rods. Hopefully I can figure out how to get the circlips out and remove the connecting rods without pulling the pistons, this way I don't need to remove the cylinder head.

Thanks to all for the great advice; I'm glad someone knows what I'm doing since I'm just flailing around blindly!

 

Which bearing shells to order?

For the connecting rods, I am ordering 4x Blue bearing shells and 4x Red bearing shells, per the repair manual.

For the bottom bearing shells, I'll order (from left to right) Purple, Blue, Purple, Green, Purple shells as indicated by the colored dots painted on the crankshaft. These shells go in the bottom half of the crankcase:

And for the top crankcase bearing shells, I'll purchase 5x Yellow bearings per these dots painted on the outside of the engine. I'm assuming the last one on the right - the red dot - is for something else.

Just the 18 bearing-halves alone will cost about $450! I need to make a full parts list and order online somewhere - maybe I can find someplace that charges less-than-retail.

 

For the connecting rods, I am ordering 4x Blue bearing shells and 4x Red bearing shells, per the repair manual.

For the bottom bearing shells, I'll order (from left to right) Purple, Blue, Purple, Green, Purple shells as indicated by the colored dots painted on the crankshaft. These shells go in the bottom half of the crankcase:

And for the top crankcase bearing shells, I'll purchase 5x Yellow bearings per these dots painted on the outside of the engine. I'm assuming the last one on the right - the red dot - is for something else.

Just the 18 bearing-halves alone will cost about $450! I need to make a full parts list and order online somewhere - maybe I can find someplace that charges less-than-retail.

Are you sure those are the main bearing classification markings? From experience on BMW car engines the main bearing classification markings are always stamped/laser etched on the block and crankshaft, not paint markings that can wash away.

 

I guess this means your warranty's over?

 

Funny story about that: ultimately, your warranty is void if your motorcycle has ever been part of a "competition" at any level, as determined by BMW. If you disagree with BMWNA, you can tow the bike yourself to another dealer who may submit a new claim to BMWNA for reevaluation.

They literally showed me a printout of a photo from the prior owner's Facebook page and denied my warranty claim. The photo was of a person, presumably the prior owner, and an S1000RR, presumably this one, with number plates and a caption along the lines of, "I won this race!".

Talking with others in my local club, BMW is the only manufacturer that actively enforces their racing-voids-warranty clause. I won't make public conjectures about reliability, customer service, or marketing goals based solely on my experiences, however.

 

So you modded the block to except the disk crank ?

 

He's correct. Paint markings denote bearing shell size required.

 

Interesting. I stand corrected. Thanks viperclaw.

 

If it were me I would take the time to mic and or plasti-gage all of the clearances to be sure they are correct before the final assembly. You have a lot of time and money in it to have something go wrong now.

 

Measure twice, cut once, the shop teacher used to say!
I say, I cut it three times and it's still too short!

 

2010 Crank vs. 2011

I remember seeing a thread last year or earlier this year regarding the changes in the crankshaft - and that no one was really sure what changed.

Well, back in March I spun a bearing. I got a new-used crankshaft from a crashed S1000RR of unknown VIN/date. I finally got the engine apart, and was looking at pictures to figure out which-color rod bearings I need, when I noticed this very significant difference between the two crankshafts.

First, is this the "new" crankshaft part? If so, it looks like they replaced one balancing weight with a symmetric disk. The bearing colors on the old crankshaft are mostly red and green - the new one uses blue or purple bearings. The new crankshaft "wiggles" if I place it into the bottom-half, which indicates that the crankshaft must be a little bit thinner in these spots.



Second, is there a way I can determine if the old crankshaft is repairable? 18 new rod bearings is something like $400; repairing the old crankshaft might actually be cheaper if it means not replacing all the bearings.

-E

(There are some better pictures on my Facebook if you want a better look.)

That is the new 2011 crank w/ the symmetrical disk. I just had one ordered to replace a spun bearing in my 2010 S1000RR. The bike is at the dealer now and they showed me the difference between the two cranks (454 grams/ 1 pound). In my case the #3 Rod was the culprit. The red and green markings are not for the year of the crank but instead the markings for the bearing sizes. Once the crank is received at the dealership, they then note the markings and order the bearings.

I will share the comparo between the 2010 and 2011 crank installed in a 2010 engine. I hope to have her back in two weeks.

 

Hello,

I use a 2010 and a 2011 for racing only. To be honest, I do not feel a big gap between the both models. If I did not know which one I ride, I cannot say which one it is.
The feeling, the behaviour, the max speeds and the lap times are equal, whatever the track type.
This change has been done for WSBK in order to get the choice depending on the track and the rider. If you have a look on WSTK perfs, 2010 and 2011 are the same.

 

Sorry for the lack of updates, it's because I'm not working on the bike, I'm just waiting for the mailman.

I mailed the bad crankshaft to marinecrankshaftinc.com, who estimated they could return the crankshaft to factory-condition for about $300. I sent them my old crankshaft on 12/29/11. David Eden emailed me two days ago to tell me it'll be done next week. (To clarify: I'm still installing the 2011 crankshaft, but I figured it'd be good to have the 2010 crankshaft ready as a spare.)

I also ordered the parts I needed from Maxbmwmotorcycles.com today. Altogether the parts cost about $1000, with the big-ticket items being:

• Crankshaft Bearing Shells, $450
• BMW-specific tools, like an "alignment jig" and chain-tensioner tool, $300
• Gaskets, $120
• Non-reusable screws, $75

Notably, the bearing shell part numbers are different for the 2011 crankshafts. You should double-check with... someone?... before ordering. Fortunately, Drew and Rusty were able to sort it out for me. Here are the part numbers I ordered from:

2011 Connecting Rod
11248520157 Bearing Shell, red
11248520158 Bearing Shell, violet
11248520159 Bearing Shell, blue

2011 Crankshaft bearing shells
* With groove (need 4 total):
11218520161 yellow
11218520162 blue
11218520163 green
11218520164 black
11218520165 violet
* Without groove (need 6 total):
11218520167 yellow
11218520168 blue
11218520169 green
11218520170 black
11218520171 violet

 

Back on the job.

Modifying Bottom Case for New Crankshaft

The 2011+ Crankshaft does not fit in the 2010 engine without modification. It's not too tough - there's a tab in the bottom half that needs to be shaved down. I used Play-doh throughout the proces to check clearance.

I used a Dremel and cutting wheel - it was a fairly quick process. I took about 9.5mm of material off in total, then deburred the edges.

Speaking of the new crankshaft, today was the first time I noticed that there are two strange teeth on the gearing - like they've been cut short. I have no idea why this is done.

Replacing the Connecting Rods

gixerconvert mentioned (last year!) that my burnt connecting rod maybe be oval - so, since I've got a set of four new rods, I'm swapping them in.

First, remember to sort and label everything. Everything here has a specific place, partner, and direction. I take lots of pictures so that I can refer back to them if I forget. I also write directly on the metal parts whenever I can.

If you pull the piston up ("down"?), you can finesse the connecting rods out without removing the piston.

I don't know if there's a specific tool for removing the circle-clips, but a paperclip with the end bent 90 degrees worked really well when I tried it. Once the clip is removed, you can push out cylinder that holds the rods in place. I used a set of Allen keys of varying lengths for leverage.

Reinstalling took a little bit longer - it was difficult for me to install the circlips in such a small space - but I got it done with a little effort and luck. If you're having trouble getting the circles to "stick", note that the cylinder slides in the piston pretty easily, so double-check to make sure you've pushed it all the way in.

The first two connecting rods took me about 3 hours to swap - the second two took about 30 minutes. This was my gentle reminder that doing the work myself is not value-cost effective compared to paying an expert to do it. But, the crankshaft looks like it's successfully back in the engine in spite of my inexperience.

Oh, and the bolts on the connecting rods need to be replaced each time because they distort during tightening. The last step here is to "turn them 90 degrees" - it wasn't obvious to me for the first pair, but I realized that they have marks every 90 degrees, so a dot with a Sharpie makes it easy to gauge the angle.

 

Thats an crankshaft trigger wheel. Its used in conjunction with a pickup sensor to relay info such as RPM, TDC etc.. to the ECM. Some engine manufacturers also use them in conjunction with cam pickup sensors!

Speaking of the new crankshaft, today was the first time I noticed that there are two strange teeth on the gearing - like they've been cut short. I have no idea why this is done.

 

Cool information, thanks for posting