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Discussion Starter #1
What's your take on rear brake on track? If you use it, thumb rear brake or standard foot lever?
What brand thumb brake? HEL, IMA, or Accossato?

I'm aware many track schools and some pro riders don't use the rear brake. Many others do.
I have gotten to a decent pace without using it. But after seeing a new racer friend start using it, he was improving with it. So I tried it out, and it provides some great benefits, especially on corner entry; when done with front heavy braking and to apex. I like it enough, I'm getting a thumb brake, I have long legs, hard to use the pedal brake while leaned over.

I plan to remove foot lever, just keep thumb brake. Any reason not to?
 

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What's your take on rear brake on track? If you use it, thumb rear brake or standard foot lever?
What brand thumb brake? HEL, IMA, or Accossato?

I'm aware many track schools and some pro riders don't use the rear brake. Many others do.
I have gotten to a decent pace without using it. But after seeing a new racer friend start using it, he was improving with it. So I tried it out, and it provides some great benefits, especially on corner entry; when done with front heavy braking and to apex. I like it enough, I'm getting a thumb brake, I have long legs, hard to use the pedal brake while leaned over.

I plan to remove foot lever, just keep thumb brake. Any reason not to?
I love my thumb brake.i use it for entry and exit. when breaking after a long straight i use the thumb brake first and straight after the front break. so that way i have the rear tyre on the ground and not in the air.

Slight use of the thumb brake in the corner to tighten the corner and thumb brake out of the corner in to straights as wheele control.

i use : DISCACCIATI thumb brake if i hade the money i would go for the IMA better adjustability on mounting and breaking.

Just remember that you need to remove the ABS on the bike
here is my setup ( at the end)

 

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Discussion Starter #3
I love my thumb brake.i use it for entry and exit. when breaking after a long straight i use the thumb brake first and straight after the front break. so that way i have the rear tyre on the ground and not in the air.
Great to hear! Thanks!

I plan to use IMA, would you go with bar or fork mounted?
Would you keep foot lever? Or should I use a T split and keep foot lever? I just hate having it there if I don't use it.

Do you have underslug rear brake caliper or standard? I'm finding it hard to find an underslug calip that works with OEM wheels. Brembo P4 84 34mm calip with bracket seem to work only with March* aftermarket wheels only. Is that true?
 

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What's your take on rear brake on track? If you use it, thumb rear brake or standard foot lever?
What brand thumb brake? HEL, IMA, or Accossato?

I'm aware many track schools and some pro riders don't use the rear brake. Many others do.
I have gotten to a decent pace without using it. But after seeing a new racer friend start using it, he was improving with it. So I tried it out, and it provides some great benefits, especially on corner entry; when done with front heavy braking and to apex. I like it enough, I'm getting a thumb brake, I have long legs, hard to use the pedal brake while leaned over.

I plan to remove foot lever, just keep thumb brake. Any reason not to?
I have the alpha one, fits really good, fork mounted.
 

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I have Alpha as well, altho it's rebranded IMA. They have 2 mounting options, I mounted to a fork.
 

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Great to hear! Thanks!

I plan to use IMA, would you go with bar or fork mounted?
Would you keep foot lever? Or should I use a T split and keep foot lever? I just hate having it there if I don't use it.

Do you have underslug rear brake caliper or standard? I'm finding it hard to find an underslug calip that works with OEM wheels. Brembo P4 84 34mm calip with bracket seem to work only with March* aftermarket wheels only. Is that true?
bar or fork mount depends on how much stuff you have on your bars. it is beter to mount it on the fork so you save space on the bars. problem with fork mount is that if you are unlucky and crash there is a small risk of damages forks.

I have standard caliper mount ( due too lack of money ).
I have the foot rest in case i need it or if the thumb brake fales.
 

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when breaking after a long straight i use the thumb brake first and straight after the front break. so that way i have the rear tyre on the ground and not in the air.
With any way you brake less, rear will not be in air, and you also lose time.
It does not matter if you use front or rear, or front and rear brake.
If you have troubles keeping rear on ground when braking, rear brake will not solve the problem, it will only hide the real problem.
 

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I have gotten to a decent pace without using it. But after seeing a new racer friend start using it, he was improving with it. So I tried it out, and it provides some great benefits, especially on corner entry; when done with front heavy braking and to apex. I like it enough, I'm getting a thumb brake, I have long legs, hard to use the pedal brake while leaned over.
It might temporarily make you feel better. But as you hopefully some day get faster, you will notice that the errors you are now making in entry, are not fixed with rear brake.
So rear brake will only slow down your progress, because you have to waste time and money to learn how to use it. But it will make you feel better.
 

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I tried a bike with a rear brake lever mounted below the clutch. I prefer that over a foot lever. Some corners it's not useful but others I found it very useful especially if there was an error and you're going to miss an apex. Also some tracks like VIR are not well suited for high engine braking but in a few corners it would be good. So dial the engine braking down and use the rear brake in turns where you would prefer to have engine braking dialed up.
 

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You guys miss the point of linked brakes and the ability to adjust the bias. Geee, BMW tried to give you linked braking system, but sure, it is limited and it is the same setting corner after corner. ABS is not like it was in 1980's and even 1990's where it was unpredictable and would trigger at the slightest amount of tire slip. it had that jerk release jerk feel. Today it is very progressive to the point that BMW can make a bike sit itself back up in a front tire tuck and slide.

Up comes MotoGP with full GPS tracking around the track. There is a rumor that linked braking is in the works for what you want in one corner will be completely different for the next corner by setup. Either using the thumb, or the foot is a distraction. If you are use to the application of braking with the right brake lever, then it is a desire to have linked braking in that it is controlled corner by corner in settings. This will be awesome to have some day.

@Dylan Code describes it alot better in that 'some' corners are better than others to use a rear brake. Does not matter you are foot or thumb, its the application of use for that approach or exit.

@speedfinn is fine to say its your feel and comfort and you are putting a band aid on a error of use. Ok, well, if it decreases lap times mission accomplished. Thumb brakes been around since 1980's or maybe even before. I know because I was one of the first people to use linked braking from the front master to control the rear caliper and front calipers in 1985. Thumb brakes were already around because alot of flat trackers use thumb brakes to set the bike on entry. Everyone can learn this, but on asphalt its a whole new level of feel and trust in the rear tire being consistent.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So rear brake will only slow down your progress, because you have to waste time and money to learn how to use it. But it will make you feel better.
You are a physics guy, you know it's better to use the rear brake than the front to tighten corner entry, less load on the front, allows more lean angle. Have you read motorcycle dynamics? lol

Why are you saying rear brake will slow me down? Sure if I have to learn using it, but once I'm used to it, I'll be in a better place from before.

Also some tracks like VIR are not well suited for high engine braking but in a few corners it would be good. So dial the engine braking down and use the rear brake in turns where you would prefer to have engine braking dialed up.
Could you elaborate what corners at VIR would you use the rear brake? Would you agree any corner over 90degree angle would benefit from rear brake?
 

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Could you elaborate what corners at VIR would you use the rear brake? Would you agree any corner over 90degree angle would benefit from rear brake?
I'd say 1, 3, 4a, 10. I could not say any corner over 90 degrees because there are too many possibilities regarding camber, elevation, and speed of entry. Also it can depend on the bike itself. Some bikes "dance" under rear brake, others feel very stable. There's a Sylvain Guintoli video where he mentions he won the World Superbike Championship and never touched the rear brake once during the whole season. On a MotoGP bike he does use the rear brake however.

I recommend supermoto riding if one wants to get more proficient with the rear brake.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I'd say 1, 3, 4a, 10. I could not say any corner over 90 degrees because there are too many possibilities regarding camber, elevation, and speed of entry. Also it can depend on the bike itself. Some bikes "dance" under rear brake, others feel very stable. There's a Sylvain Guintoli video
What about T13 VIR (bottom of roller coaster)? So much load on the front, a smidge on the rear seems to work much better than the front.

I saw Sylvain's video, but one thing to keep in mind he is on the shorter side. Having 34 inseam, makes it hard for me. Have you seen this from AMA Mathew Scholtz? I have a similar build/height.
 

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What about T13 VIR (bottom of roller coaster)? So much load on the front, a smidge on the rear seems to work much better than the front.

I saw Sylvain's video, but one thing to keep in mind he is on the shorter side. Having 34 inseam, makes it hard for me. Have you seen this from AMA Mathew Scholtz? I have a similar build/height.
Going into 13 at VIR I think most of the braking is done during the transition so I would not use the rear there personally, but it may suit the bike like I mentioned before. With some bikes it would be detrimental, but other bikes, advantageous.
If you watch MotoGP footage closely riders across all classes are using the rear brake fairly regularly in the corners that suit it e.g. a few corners at Aragon and Valencia. So I'm not seeing any correlation with rider size so far.
 

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You are a physics guy,
Wrong.
you know it's better to use the rear brake than the front to tighten corner entry
Wrong.
, less load on the front,
Wrong.
allows more lean angle.
Wrong.
Have you read motorcycle dynamics? lol
Next time try to understand what you read.
Why are you saying rear brake will slow me down?
Or maybe you should learn to read?
"rear brake will only slow down your progress"
Sure if I have to learn using it, but once I'm used to it, I'll be in a better place from before.
Wrong. You will be at the same place making the same errors as you are now.
 

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@speedfinn is fine to say its your feel and comfort and you are putting a band aid on a error of use. Ok, well, if it decreases lap times mission accomplished. Thumb brakes been around since 1980's or maybe even before. I know because I was one of the first people to use linked braking from the front master to control the rear caliper and front calipers in 1985. Thumb brakes were already around because alot of flat trackers use thumb brakes to set the bike on entry. Everyone can learn this, but on asphalt its a whole new level of feel and trust in the rear tire being consistent.
Thumb brake, linked brake, 1980's, flat trackers, et cetera, down the memory lane?
How about if just stick to the original subject "Thumb Rear brake on track", and OP is a average track day rider, and year 2020 (or 2021).
As you said "Either using the thumb, or the foot is a distraction." even in MotoGP-level.
 

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With any way you brake less, rear will not be in air, and you also lose time.
It does not matter if you use front or rear, or front and rear brake.
If you have troubles keeping rear on ground when braking, rear brake will not solve the problem, it will only hide the real problem.
Breaking after a lon straight. if you use the rear break first and then the front it will help to lower the rea of the bike by compressing the rear shock first and then the front of the bike when you break with front break. So you will have a more stable bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Wrong. You will be at the same place making the same errors as you are now.
I kinda understand where you are coming from. Do you use the rear brake or only the front?

What am I missing here? Maybe you can read better or not expert enough lol?
214480


At a turn like this the rear brake would have helped the bike better on entry. I'm in red, only trailing the front brake.
214479
 

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Breaking after a lon straight. if you use the rear break first and then the front it will help to lower the rea of the bike by compressing the rear shock first and then the front of the bike when you break with front break. So you will have a more stable bike.
That is one of the legendary myths. Still alive...

That will make you slower, you are wasting more time on transitions than necessary.
 

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What am I missing here? Maybe you can read better or not expert enough lol?
In that text clip the ambient is street riding, and street riding "experts".
vs
Check page 98 last two points.

Read pages 96-104 and try to understand the big picture.
 
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