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The below article appeared in Sportrider magazine a few months ago. It finally appeared on their website.

Riding With Traction Control | Riding Skills Series | Sport Rider

In my limited track time last year, I had traction control dialed down and rode the bike as if it didn't have it. I only wanted the intervention when I screwed up. The Sportrider article appears to confirm this is the right approach. Constant intervention "slows you down."

Sooo... I was wondering what approach the rest of you use. Are you one of those people that just wacks the throttle wide open and lets the electronics determine max throttle application based on lean angle and slip? I haven't seen this topic specifically addressed and thought it worth asking. TIA. :smile2:
 

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Surprised the article only focused on TC. I find ABS to be worthless on the track. TC and ABS on the street are great. TC on the track dialed down is great. It saved me few times.

On the street race mode, on the track slick/user mode and adjust TC depending on how close to God I feel that day.
 

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The below article appeared in Sportrider magazine a few months ago. It finally appeared on their website.

Riding With Traction Control | Riding Skills Series | Sport Rider

In my limited track time last year, I had traction control dialed down and rode the bike as if it didn't have it. I only wanted the intervention when I screwed up. The Sportrider article appears to confirm this is the right approach. Constant intervention "slows you down."

Sooo... I was wondering what approach the rest of you use. Are you one of those people that just wacks the throttle wide open and lets the electronics determine max throttle application based on lean angle and slip? I haven't seen this topic specifically addressed and thought it worth asking. TIA. :smile2:
If I am on the track I don't want the TC until after I feel the slide, so Slick +/- to get to that point.

On the street I consider a slide a rider error, so I want the TC to prevent any slide.

Last week on the ride to Berryessa there was ice on the ground as well as sand they drop to give grip over the ice. I went to Rain mode and didn't think about it again, no slides, no drama, just smooth and soft.
 

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It may not be the fastest, but I run race mode at the track and don't dial back the TC. I ride with the factory plastics and don't want to unnecessarily pay the high price for a mistake with my throttle hand. Also, I have been shown video by a guy following me on another brand. He was mesmerized by the fact that exiting out of every high throttle corner my bike left this perfect black line of rubber from the back tire. I have no reason to believe that I can control the throttle application any better than that all by myself. He replaced his bike with an S1000RR.

Of course, I still don't just hammer the throttle in corners and trust the TC. This is a recipe for disaster as a lot of things, like a sudden change in suspension geometry, can cause you to lose the bike. But once it gets remotely close to upright, yes I am comfortable pegging it.
 

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It may not be the fastest, but I run race mode at the track and don't dial back the TC. I ride with the factory plastics and don't want to unnecessarily pay the high price for a mistake with my throttle hand. Also, I have been shown video by a guy following me on another brand. He was mesmerized by the fact that exiting out of every high throttle corner my bike left this perfect black line of rubber from the back tire. I have no reason to believe that I can control the throttle application any better than that all by myself. He replaced his bike with an S1000RR.

Of course, I still don't just hammer the throttle in corners and trust the TC. This is a recipe for disaster as a lot of things, like a sudden change in suspension geometry, can cause you to lose the bike. But once it gets remotely close to upright, yes I am comfortable pegging it.
I'd love to see that vid, you should post it!

There are plenty of vids of total expert riders and the wild slides they can get with smoke billowing off the rear tire, but I'd like to see a regular guy doing it. Me, I've seen the bars afterwards showing that I'd maxed out the TC graph, but never felt anything. I think for me is wasn't while leaned over, it was in a straight line, and prevented a wheelie on several occasions. One day I hope to get a GoPro and see where it occurs.
 

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Of course, I still don't just hammer the throttle in corners and trust the TC. This is a recipe for disaster as a lot of things, like a sudden change in suspension geometry, can cause you to lose the bike. But once it gets remotely close to upright, yes I am comfortable pegging it.
This could get you in trouble. TC is not going to save you when you violate laws of physics. I would not rely on it. I learned that slow hands (throttle and brakes) make a huge difference. Sometimes I forget I chop the throttle and I see how unsmooth things get :grin2:

What group do you run in? I do average laptimes for advanced, run low to mid of pack. Race mode works but it does intervene more than I like it to, especially at lean angles. If you don't plan on doing your best it will be fine. But I started doing user mode and adjusting TC and I got better. You can start with TC in race mode with -2, go from there.

Finally, in race mode ABS sucks. If you any do hard braking, trail brake, try to downshift, shifts won't work. I have a couple of threads on this. Slick mode helps with this, but ABS still intervenes sometimes. Next season I plan to disable ABS all together.
 

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This could get you in trouble. TC is not going to save you when you violate laws of physics. I would not rely on it. I learned that slow hands (throttle and brakes) make a huge difference. Sometimes I forget I chop the throttle and I see how unsmooth things get :grin2:
Nothing wrong with pinning it as soon as possible, that's the point
 

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Nothing wrong with pinning it as soon as possible, that's the point
The problem with that at lean angle it could still make you crash. Also this means you're going slower since bike is not putting max power for a given lean angle.
 

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It's exactly how you should ride with TC.

I learnt on 1000cc bikes with no abs or tc. Teaches you how to ride properly. Teaches you about how the bike reacts when you make a mistake. It's good to know what a some what analogue bike feels like because we won't see that anymore. Sure you can turn it off still. But there is nothing like not having the choice.

I run slick mode and dial down tc on the road. Its how I always ride. I like the bike sliding around. It's good to feel a bit loose. Feel like you're riding the bike.

People think Im only fast because I am constantly relying on abs or tc to save me. Just ham fisting the throttle and brakes. Fact is. I could turn it all off and it wouldn't make a damn difference to my speed. Ill be just as quick. Its not something you rely on to ride fast. You have it there as a safety net when sh1t hits the fan and you over step the mark. It's a great learning tool.

It indeed tells you that if you are relying on these aids then you are doing it wrong. You control the bike not the bike controls you. Its kind of the issue with squids buying 1000cc bikes with 200hp and tc and abs. Tc and abs don't stop your uneducated brain from twisting the throttle. Hitting enormous speeds in split seconds and not being able to deal with the result.

Smooth is fast. Smooth and controlled inputs result in fast outputs. Nothing abrupt or on and off light switch style. Its something that is gained from much riding over a life time. It can look effortless to others. How do you ride so fast but look like you're hardly trying. You don't see all the small things and calculations being made in the brain when a rider is riding.

That's my thoughts anyway.
 

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It allows you to dabble at the edge. See what grip is available. Tell you you've gone too far. Gives you a smack on your ass when you disobey. It's not a substitute for knowledge, experience or skill. It also gives you confidence to push harder but be some what safe at the same time. If anything that's what makes you faster. The increased confidence of having something to catch you when you fall.
 

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“I have always loved to ride bikes with less electronics, and I can say that it was really great to race with those machines. But it is great also nowadays. It is incredible how fast we can ride with our machines, especially in the corner. Maybe the races were different when we were riding bikes without it or with less traction control. Now we can ride really fast from the first to the very last lap. This means that you have to be totally concentrated throughout the whole race. A mistake is not allowed. I think we are speaking about two different eras and, I like them both.” - Valentino Rossi

“I prefer to stick with the traction control. I can control the bike, but the power of a MotoGP machine is huge, more than 250 hp, so you need some help. Without traction control, it would be impossible to ride these machines. Traction control also means more safety. Sometimes the bike reacts differently to your way of riding, but for sure traction control always saves the crash. Even with traction control we sometimes struggle to keep the grip on the rear tire, so I think it would be almost impossible to ride our bikes without it.” - 
Jorge Lorenzo
 

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The problem with that at lean angle it could still make you crash. Also this means you're going slower since bike is not putting max power for a given lean angle.
He said "But once it gets remotely close to upright, yes I am comfortable pegging it."
Based off his history of posts, I'd say he's not doing this on cold tires either, or the first lap either.

Be easy man, I'm beginning to think one of the mods have taken control of your account.
 

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What I try to Do

The old adage "Slow is Smooth,Smooth is fast"

Slow deliberate braking,down shifting,body positioning,etc. Try not to rush any of the aforementioned moves.
The result will be in your level of confidence and control.
 

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With the BMW HP datalogger you can actually see how much TC is being applied by the bike. You can also see how much power the ECU is predictively taking away before the rear spins.

The programming, regardless of the mode goes like this:

1) rider "requests" power (twists the throttle). It's called by some "requested throttle".

2) ECU crunches all the numbers (lean angle, front wheel speed, lateral and longitudinal acceleration, rpm, rate of rpm rise, etc.) and gives bike what it thinks you should have (usually less than you ask). It's called by some "granted throttle".

3) If, despite that, you are getting rear wheel spin outside the parameters of your current mode, the system reactively reduces the engine torque. This is what most people call traction control, but a lot more intervention is happening at #2 above.

With the datalogger you can see it all happening as you ride.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
With the datalogger you can see it all happening as you ride.
Don't you mean: "After your ride?" It's not real time on a display as far as I know. Does the daatalogger separate individual sessions? They aren't recorded as one on a trackday are they?
 

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Yes after you ride. It's not shown as simply values but graphically on a linear time line. There are actually a few ways you can look at certain data. Yes it separates the sessions. Turn your key off and that stops the session.
 

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Yes after you ride. It's not shown as simply values but graphically on a linear time line. There are actually a few ways you can look at certain data. Yes it separates the sessions. Turn your key off and that stops the session.
Thanks Dylan!
Any way to see this at school? [VIR in May]
 

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Yes after you ride. It's not shown as simply values but graphically on a linear time line. There are actually a few ways you can look at certain data. Yes it separates the sessions. Turn your key off and that stops the session.
Thanks Dylan!
Any way to see this at school? [VIR in May]

Yes. Come see me at VIR and say "I'm the guy from the RR forum who wants to see the datalogger" and I'll pull up some data on the classroom computer for you to see how it works.
 
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