[Ravenbravo]

Hi Gang,

long time no chat...just bought a brand new 24 M1000RR about a week ago...heard about this case. I have been warned to NOT tune this bike. BMW will be checking for tunes anytime you service it or go in for warranty work. Starting this year the M bikes get the first break in service for free. I plan to break mine in properly and let BMW do the service. The carbon rims may not be coming back, customers have been reporting cracks. From my understanding we have been credited since the carbon rims bring the bike to 42-43k. Mine was 38k with the m package. They came down about 1500 off msrp for me and that took some effort.

my advice is if your going to buy an expensive bike with a 3 year warranty, you should avoid doing things that can void the warranty, i watched the video and saw that the tuning most likely didn't cause the warranty issue BUT tuning changes so many things, is there really anyway to prove that? the bottom line is if they didn't have the tune, they would be getting a new engine from bmw.

This bike in NA is a turd without a tune and not worth owning IMO without a tune!

 

[ArabianOak]

This bike in NA is a turd without a tune and not worth owning IMO without a tune!

Totally understand your point but people shouldn't buy it then. There are FEW manufacturers who would warranty ANYTHING with a tune. They are doing all they can to lock these ECU's up because it's such a massive issue. I have tuned plenty of my toys and learned the hard way.

 

[Ravenbravo]

Totally understand your point but people shouldn't buy it then. There are FEW manufacturers who would warranty ANYTHING with a tune. They are doing all they can to lock these ECU's up because it's such a massive issue. I have tuned plenty of my toys and learned the hard way.

I dont understand the massive restrictions on these bikes from BMW.
Aprilia isnt like this

 

[Windyrun]

Not sure about all the raves for the GSXR/ complaining about S1000RR power stock. Here is a dyno of a US 2022 bike with 149hp.... before any tunes.

Sure in EU form the RR has more power (as advertised) but we are in the US with the EPA.

 

[2024RR]

Wow: BMW has always been very good with our warranty problems. Sure makes me think twice about buying this one at the end of this month.
Still confused about why they didn't just return it to the original BMW dealer who sold it to them.

 

[Windyrun]

While I completely understand the disappointment of having an engine blow and no warranty support, my bike is completely stock except for the BMW torque map which does not affect warranty. If my engine blows or anything like that I fully expect BMW to take care of it while under factory warranty.

 

[2024RR]

I've seen the dyno read out for the Torque mapping, doesn't look like much difference than the regular mapping?

 

[omasou]

IMO, if he would have had a dealer perform the break-in service rather than making a youtube video of him doing it; the outcome may have been very different. Though the tune didn't help his case.

He did complain that the dealer wasn't very good and there is only one other in the area.

I was very surprised that he kept revving the engine after hearing the noise!

 

[2024RR]

That's the rub, dealer is certified doing the break-in service, no matter how experienced the tech is or quality of work. I don't think very highly of most Technicians work quality either.

 

[einzelgänger]

@2024RR Long and short of the Torque Optimized Map (TOM) is it cuts 2k RPM off the top end but restores the midrange drop. It makes a significant difference for road riding. But you will lose top end power and peak power is reduced to around 180 HP. I have it on my bike as well as I don't live above 12k too often.

@omasou 100% agree. If he just did the bare minimum he wouldn't need to make a drama queen video spreading borderline misinformation. If you don't care about the warranty or you're a race team, go ahead and do your own break in procedure and tune it at 10 miles. But if you want to use the warranty, then you have to do the bare minimum.

In my opinion BMW Motorrad has the best US warranty of any sport bike manufacture. KTMs are 6 months to one year. Ducati are 1-2 years depending on the model. Aprilia is 2 years, but that's even if you have a dealer nearby. BMW will not deny a claim if you fall within the terms and conditions, it's that simple. In my opinion some people need to zoom out and appreciate you can spend 20k for a 200hp high revving, highly stressed engine, with an entire motorcycle attached and still get a 3 year warranty. Good luck getting any vehicle manufacturer warranty your sports car that blows up after you ignore the break in and tune it.

 

[Windyrun]

"I've seen the dyno read out for the Torque mapping, doesn't look like much difference than the regular mapping?"

Here is a link done by BT for the BMW Torque Map. Shows (fifth gear) stock 195hp and 84 lb/ft with big torque drop around 6k rpm whereas TOM has 180 HP and 84 lb/ft with minimal torque drop:

2020 S1000RR "Torque Optimization" Map vs...

BMW’s new “Torque Optimization” mapping for the 2020 BMW S1000RR tested! A lot of you have been asking what the downside is and the upside. These graphs explain the pros and cons of both OEM BMW maps. A customer of ours in California had a chance to test the new BMW torque optimization...

www.s1000rrforum.com

 

[Ravenbravo]

@2024RR Long and short of the Torque Optimized Map (TOM) is it cuts 2k RPM off the top end but restores the midrange drop. It makes a significant difference for road riding. But you will lose top end power and peak power is reduced to around 180 HP. I have it on my bike as well as I don't live above 12k too often.

@omasou 100% agree. If he just did the bare minimum he wouldn't need to make a drama queen video spreading borderline misinformation. If you don't care about the warranty or you're a race team, go ahead and do your own break in procedure and tune it at 10 miles. But if you want to use the warranty, then you have to do the bare minimum.

In my opinion BMW Motorrad has the best US warranty of any sport bike manufacture. KTMs are 6 months to one year. Ducati are 1-2 years depending on the model. Aprilia is 2 years, but that's even if you have a dealer nearby. BMW will not deny a claim if you fall within the terms and conditions, it's that simple. In my opinion some people need to zoom out and appreciate you can spend 20k for a 200hp high revving, highly stressed engine, with an entire motorcycle attached and still get a 3 year warranty. Good luck getting any vehicle manufacturer warranty your sports car that blows up after you ignore the break in and tune it.

Its not rocket science to do the break in! Change the oil and filter, remove the rev limit! Thats it! Zach the master mechanic removes 650 ibs rev limit at 400 miles many times! This whole thing is horse crap on BMW, the engine had issues from day 1.

 

[Ravenbravo]

I've seen the dyno read out for the Torque mapping, doesn't look like much difference than the regular mapping?

Wasnt worth it to me, the tune crushes the torque map.

 

[einzelgänger]

@Ravenbravo yes and Zach is a BMW tech formally doing a break in service during the required 350-600 mile range. It's not about how complicated it is, it's about BMW having a record of their warranty requirements being met.

They can say you have to shove a banana up your ass before riding for the warranty to be validated and as long as that adheres the law of the country the bike is sold in, we'd have to do that lol.

It's entirely possible the engine was FUBAR before leaving the factory but he dug himself a hole before that could even be established

 

[LGS1K]

I've seen the dyno read out for the Torque mapping, doesn't look like much difference than the regular mapping?

The flat midrange is improved on the dyno sheets I've seen posted. I may go this route after first service and it is a free map

 

[z00]

I will say if Suzuki offered the electronic packages, cruise, heated grips that BMW has I would be owning one of those instead of this BMW!

Suzuki released newer bikes GSX S with everything you listed, but it's a touring bike, not a sportbike. I hope Suzuki gets back to making sportbikes but I doubt it will happen.

Ironically 22+ V4 reliability and handling have been much better, mainly due to Ducati QA process improvement after Audi parent company acquired Ducati.
Out of all 23+ sportbikes, prob HondaRR R SP & Ducati to be most reliable. Yamaha R1 has been $hit.

 

[d40]

yes and Zach is a BMW tech formally doing a break in service during the required 350-600 mile range. It's not about how complicated it is, it's about BMW having a record of their warranty requirements being met.

You win. And the 250 RPM over-rev wasn’t a mitigating factor either.

Why didn't they refuse repair for the exhaust or tune? Either would have been easy victories for both their accountants and army of lawyers. Given the publicity, it could have also crippled a significant portion of the BMW performance tuning market in one fell swoop had that been their goal.

Maybe because Joe Customer having oil and filter receipts still doesn't prove the work was done to standard and BMW taking a stand here protects the dealer network by negatively reenforcing customers to have maintenance performed by dealers since Service is a significant revenue stream of theirs? What if BMW was presented with an engine replacement claim after a customer-performed valve adjustment?

BMW clearly picks its battles.

Even assuming the engine was bad, there is no way BMW gets into the habit of publicizing no-questions-asked engine replacements for every ‘mechanic’ with a GS911, your favorite YouTuber or not, without being forced. He gave them an out and they took it, as most for-profit companies would have.

But despite his on-camera demeanor about the situation, don’t feel too bad for Manny. MotoMillion (not Manny) will write that 15K off and move on. But a person faced with the choice of having a 40K paperweight or liquidating a 401k will surely think twice about self-performed maintenance now, an issue to which Manny himself alluded.

BT even admitted they let the dealer remove theirs in response to a comment on the video; that fact alone fills in a lot of what's NOT being said.

 

[corkgsxr]

I wonder is it the particular tune that is the issue.

I was told use piggyback eg pcv and your fine. Tune the ecu your in trouble.

 

[Taemur]

I dont understand the massive restrictions on these bikes from BMW.
Aprilia isnt like this

There are still restrictions on the aprilias, they do a good job with fueling despite the flapper valve and cat comprimises. But thats a bike advertising 219 crank.

More importantly if you want even a slip on exhaust that means you need a tune as the silencer had the cat built in. Used to be that aprilia offered their own "race" ecus but those days are over so it's the same game of flashing back to stock and working with your dealership on warranty work.

This isn't a new thing, Manufacturers have always been inclined to get out of warranty.

And a good tune isn't just about horsepower, smooth linear throttle, predictable engine braking, removing odd fueling behaviors designed to beat emissions tests.
The stock map is not what the engine was designed for, it is what had to be done to meet regulations.

 

[Taemur]

Not sure about all the raves for the GSXR/ complaining about S1000RR power stock. Here is a dyno of a US 2022 bike with 149hp.... before any tunes.

Sure in EU form the RR has more power (as advertised) but we are in the US with the EPA.

THIS.

If Suzuki made a decent superbike i'd consider it but they don't, at all. Nevermind one with state of the art electronics AND all the old man comforts like heated grips etc.