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Ugh it looks beautiful to me lol. The only bike who's winglets I don't totally hate lol. Spot on with his comments about the brakes though. For now though, I'm relegated to riding this bike in my Ride 4 video game hahaha sigh....
 

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I like the wings on the new zx10r. The rest of the bike is pretty meh though
 

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I imagine he loves that they're progressive? I for one like the initial bite of the brembos. I'm not at that level where i experience the brake fade issue. From what I've read on here the remedy is the brembo MC or a good aftermarket MC? However, I DO remember the brakes on the 2020 when I did Levels 3 & 4 with CSS. I remember the brakes, no strong initial bite but when they did grab, holy crap I was pleasantly surprised by how fast I was able to slow down. Almost literally parked the bike mid corner lol. I imagine that's what a lot of guys who like Hayes brakes like about them.
 

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Right - progressive, not touchy, brick wall strong when you want them to be - friend of mine who owns 5-6 bikes took it for a spin and his first comment was "best brakes I've tried, hands down"

I rode the Ducati 1299 I sold to him with Brembos and it's not even close
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I imagine he loves that they're progressive? I for one like the initial bite of the brembos. I'm not at that level where i experience the brake fade issue. From what I've read on here the remedy is the brembo MC or a good aftermarket MC? However, I DO remember the brakes on the 2020 when I did Levels 3 & 4 with CSS. I remember the brakes, no strong initial bite but when they did grab, holy crap I was pleasantly surprised by how fast I was able to slow down. Almost literally parked the bike mid corner lol. I imagine that's what a lot of guys who like Hayes brakes like about them.
You do understand that progressivenes and biteness are properties of pads and not calipers ?

Put right pads in and you would have desired properties in any calipers.
 

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Actually, to be honest I didn't understand that, I thought it was a function of the master cylinder and the calipers themselves. Thanks for educating me, I'm being serious, I didn't know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Actually, to be honest I didn't understand that, I thought it was a function of the master cylinder and the calipers themselves. Thanks for educating me, I'm being serious, I didn't know.
Biteness is mainly property of pads and brake discs material. Since we all run steel discs, we can only change pads. If you have a chance try SBS DS-1 compound or EBC HH gpfax. These 2 provide a lot of initial bite when warm.

MC affects lever feeling. If pads are progressive, even if you use large MC's diameter, you won't feel aggressive initial bite.
 

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Put right pads in and you would have desired properties in any calipers.
You keep repeating this oversimplification. Claiming calipers don't matter is insane. If that were true, try putting some modern pads on a 1985 Ninja and see how your 100 to 0 distance compares. Or try some single piston calipers.

Previous post (Dylan Code) based on discussion with Hayes engineer:

"The earlier model used calipers with larger pistons. These piston sizes were made popular in racing in earlier times to get adequate stopping power when used with brake pad materials of the day. The production designs often followed these track based designs for decades. The new calipers use smaller pistons that exert less force on the pads with the same input from the same master cylinder model as was used on the earlier model (The smaller piston designs are now common in most sport bike calipers). The benefits of this can be the caliper is stiffer (from smaller piston holes and less piston surfaces) and when the caliper gets hot, the internal fluid volume changes less (less material to absorb heat). This results in less “lever fade” to the rider. The smaller piston design direction was greatly enabled by advancements in the brake pad friction compounds with more power, less wear. We can now enjoy better brake precision and modulation with less lever “fade” while maintaining high brake power."

I also sent an email to the tech department at StopTech to see what they have to say, too many random internet opinions not based on science or engineering expertise
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You keep repeating this oversimplification. Claiming calipers don't matter is insane. If that were true, try putting some modern pads on a 1985 Ninja and see how your 100 to 0 distance compares. Or try some single piston calipers.

I also sent an email to the tech department at StopTech to see what they have to say, too many random internet opinions not based on science or engineering expertise
I always assume one installs correct ratio between MC bore diameter and pistons size. This doesn't change the bite tho, progressive pads won't bite as quick as pads with strong initial bite even if ratio skewed towards MC.
 

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It is BOTH.
To say the system (Hayes, brembo, nissin, etc) has nothing to do with it is wrong. To say pads has nothing to do with it is wrong.
Just changing pads will change the "feel" to a degree but it will never change the overall feel or performance. If you run your favorite pair of pads on these 3 you will still have 3 very different reactions.
 

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Good upcoming preview of the BSB lineup with some BMW M1000RR

 
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The placebo effect can be positive or negative, I think you meant Hawthorne effect, where whatever they changed things always got better. Small point.
 

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Nope.

  1. a beneficial effect produced by a placebo drug or treatment, which cannot be attributed to the properties of the placebo itself, and must therefore be due to the patient's belief in that treatment.
    "orthodox doctors dismiss the positive results as a result of the placebo effect"
 
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