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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Some motoGP riders admitted they don't understand how Stoprak can trail brake with one wheel in the air.
Do you think lifting the rear is necessary for max braking power?

Keep in mind Stoprak has the bike leaned at ~ 15degrees, he is downshifting, braking, steering, leg dangling simultaneously with the rear in the air. A tremendous mental coordination.

He was 1.5sec faster in FP1 at a new track for everyone in Mandalika. Unlike what many think: lap times are made on the brakes while keeping corner speed.

 

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That looks like a clip from a video game. Alot of skill no one will understand
 

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it is NOT necessary. The reason the rear is off the ground is because so much pressure is being put on the bars, weighting the front more than he'd need to if he anchored his weight with his legs/core. It looks cool, and he def gets the job done... there's more than one way to go fast. But the simple answer here is no :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
it is NOT necessary. The reason the rear is off the ground is because so much pressure is being put on the bars, weighting the front more than he'd need to if he anchored his weight with his legs/core. It looks cool, and he def gets the job done... there's more than one way to go fast. But the simple answer here is no :)
I doubt bracing with his legs will make any difference. The rear will come up due to brake pressure.
It's clearly the fastest way around a track because Toprak is leading in points, fastest laptimes, and Garret just started copying his style to go faster on R1.
 
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I'm still thinking that Yamaha has found some way to cheat and haven't been caught yet. You're going to stop faster if your CG is lower, simple physics. You notice he's far back on his seat, trying to keep the rear end down, but I'm sure he's not doing that on his faster laps.

Kawi seems to have been screwed by the rules this year, and I think that has a lot to do with Toprak's success. He's a great rider, no doubt, but so's Rea, riding a neutered bike.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm still thinking that Yamaha has found some way to cheat and haven't been caught yet. You're going to stop faster if your CG is lower, simple physics. You notice he's far back on his seat, trying to keep the rear end down, but I'm sure he's not doing that on his faster laps.
That's a messed up mentality to accuse others of cheating if they are doing better lol. Just say nothing or you don't know.

Nope, taller riders sit back in the seat to have room to lean. If you sit closer to tank, cannot hang off. Toprak even has a tank extension to keep him back in the seat, check out his bike pics.
Compare taller riders to shorter riders BP (sit close to tank).

Me sitting almost all the way back in seat, Stoprak is my height, 6'.

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That's a messed up mentality to accuse others of cheating if they are doing better lol. Just say nothing or you don't know.

Nope, taller riders sit back in the seat to have room to lean. If you sit closer to tank, cannot hang off. Toprak even has a tank extension to keep him back in the seat, check out his bike pics.
Compare taller riders to shorter riders BP (sit close to tank).

Me sitting almost all the way back in seat, Stoprak is my height, 6'.
READ. I said "Think", I didn't say "they were" cheating. 2 completely different things. When you see smoke coming off the FRONT tire under braking, while the bike remains perfectly stable, something's up.

Not buying you "need" to be back in the street if you're tall, I'm 6' 1" and I'm the classic "monkey effing the football" crouched over the front end while riding quickly, it doesn't hamper me hanging off at all. I shift back ONLY under braking. Moving your weight back under braking makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Not buying you "need" to be back in the street if you're tall, I'm 6' 1" and I'm the classic "monkey effing the football" crouched over the front end while riding quickly, it doesn't hamper me hanging off at all. I shift back ONLY under braking. Moving your weight back under braking makes sense.
Sometimes you discuss topics you do not have a clue about. There are two main riding styles; older one with rider closest to tank, latest one where rider sits 1-3 fists from tank. Preference is based on rider's height and bike ergos. Life at lean on YT has a detailed pro/cons video of each style.

You cannot compare street riding to track riding. I rarely hang off, closer to tank, on the street, on track it is the opposite. No modern day fast pro rider sits close to the tank.
And Stoprak won the title with what you call "cheating style" 😝 .
 
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Sometimes you discuss topics you do not have a clue about. There are two main riding styles; older one with rider closest to tank, latest one where rider sits 1-3 fists from tank. Preference is based on rider's height and bike ergos. Life at lean on YT has a detailed pro/cons video of each style.

You cannot compare street riding to track riding. I rarely hang off, closer to tank, on the street, on track it is the opposite. No modern day fast pro rider sits close to the tank.
And Stoprak won the title with what you call "cheating style" 😝 .
LOL Ok Mr. Marquez. I'll believe ya when you win your first US title.

Yeah, I think Yamaha definitely is doing something, whether it's technically illegal per the rules, or they found a loophole, but when I saw smoke coming from Topraks FRONT tire, while the bike stayed perfectly stable, well, that just isn't possible without electronic intervention, like the perfect slides that are possible with TC. Here's Gerloff doing the EXACT same thing if you watched the Superpole footage. So, the obvious conclusion then (though maybe not to you) is that it's THE BIKE.
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
LOL Ok Mr. Marquez. I'll believe ya when you win your first US title.

Here's Gerloff doing the EXACT same thing if you watched the Superpole footage. So, the obvious conclusion then (though maybe not to you) is that it's THE BIKE.
You missed my other thread looks like, watch videos Race a K67 they said

Loophole lol. No, it's not the bike. It's braking style.
Both Redding and Rea's bikes lift the rear, they just don't brake as much. Garret & Stoprak are sharing bike setups, Garret started braking like Stoprak to go faster.
Notice Garret braking & using thumb brake to slow down the rear.

Here is Pedorsa braking similarly. 93 also brakes similarly. It's normal for front tire to have smoke if overheated. With the WSBK race pace they shred tires in one race. They have tire thermal gauges for a reason. Watch some videos on Yamaha WSBK on YT for all sensors used to keep brake system operating optimally.
 

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You missed my other thread looks like, watch videos Race a K67 they said

Loophole lol. No, it's not the bike. It's braking style.
Both Redding and Rea's bikes lift the rear, they just don't brake as much. Garret & Stoprak are sharing bike setups, Garret started braking like Stoprak to go faster.
Notice Garret braking & using thumb brake to slow down the rear.

Here is Pedorsa braking similarly. 93 also brakes similarly. It's normal for front tire to have smoke if overheated. With the WSBK race pace they shred tires in one race. They have tire thermal gauges for a reason. Watch some videos on Yamaha WSBK on YT for all sensors used to keep brake system operating optimally.
Ain't buying it. It's not that they lift the rear tire, it's how unbelievably stable the bike is doing it. I'm wondering if they don't have their steering damper automatically go into max damping under braking, it would be easy to do, and would lead to EXACTLY that stability. Is that illegal? Dunno. Many years ago Mladin's head engine tuning guy, Bazzaz managed to sneak something that mimics todays TC systems into his and Spies bikes, sneaking just underneath the rules. It was only legal because it didn't use a wheel speed sensor if I remember. They got away with it for years, and I think it was eventually outlawed.

Nah, you don't see smoke pouring off the front tire of Pedrosa's or MM's bike. Back tire, yes, front, no. I've never seen it, and I've seen every MotoGP race on video since the start of the 4 stroke era. If Yamaha can sneak it past the rules without being technically illegal, well, good for them, they're playing by the Penske rulebook.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ain't buying it.
I find it ironic you try to reverse engineer everything and claim engineering prowess. But you cannot accept the fact that a bike with a slight lean angle can do a rolling stoppie.

No electronic suspension or steering damper in WSBK. Let me spill it out for you, up to 15 degrees, a bike can wheelie/stoppie without any stability issues.
Not only you need track lessons, but also stunting lessons to see how a stoppie actually works, has nothing to do with steering damper.

Grab a bicycle, walk it & front brake till rear lifts up, lean it till the bike rotates around steering stem. That will clear things up for ya. It's the same principal Stoprak is using but at speed.
 

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I find it ironic you try to reverse engineer everything and claim engineering prowess. But you cannot accept the fact that a bike with a slight lean angle can do a rolling stoppie.

No electronic suspension or steering damper in WSBK. Let me spill it out for you, up to 15 degrees, a bike can wheelie/stoppie without any stability issues.
Not only you need track lessons, but also stunting lessons to see how a stoppie actually works, has nothing to do with steering damper.

Grab a bicycle, walk it & front brake till rear lifts up, lean it till the bike rotates around steering stem. That will clear things up for ya. It's the same principal Stoprak is using but at speed.
Wrong again software guy. Thanks for playing though. See, I have the advantage of watching racing for decades BEFORE all this electronics trickery, and seeing how, at the limit, the bikes were like bucking broncos. Watch Schwantz for what I'm talking about. What I'm saying is the bike is TOO stable under braking. The back end is not moving around sideways at all, compare that to, say, Redding's Ducati. That, and the smoke from the FRONT tire while the rear tire is in the air (and perfectly straight) leads me to believe there's something going on. Bazzaz got away with it, and if Yamaha is doing something they're getting away with WITHOUT actually being illegal, good for them. Exploiting the rules to the fullest without cheating is nothing to be ashamed of. Penske did it, and I have enormous respect for him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
What I'm saying is the bike is TOO stable under braking.
The R1 is that good. Yamaha dialed it in well, it's the same platform since 2015 with multiple revisions to engine & electronics, plenty of data from many national championships. 2020+ R1 winning most superbike championships. You can find a video from Tony Elias from AMA talking about electronics on R1 makes it superior. The frontend stability is a combination of rider style and a well setup bike.
 

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The R1 is that good. Yamaha dialed it in well, it's the same platform since 2015 with multiple revisions to engine & electronics, plenty of data from many national championships. 2020+ R1 winning most superbike championships. You can find a video from Tony Elias from AMA talking about electronics on R1 makes it superior. The frontend stability is a combination of rider style and a well setup bike.
No doubt, and I totally agree with you on it being a great package. It is quite a coup that Yamaha managed to win both the MotoGP and WSBK Riders Championships. Also, Toprak was definitely worthy of the Championship, to hats off to him. He, and they, put together a great season. I'm just seeing things that look a mite funny, much more than just having a good front end, and I'm having a hard time relating what I'm seeing with how all the other bikes are so much more unstable under braking. Like I said, if they have found a trick that ISN'T illegal, then hat's off to them, that's called using the rules to your best advantage. Like Penske did with the "cheater" Indycar motor. Like the Winged Wonders (Dodge Charger Daytona and Plymouth Superbird) it was so good it was immediately banned even though it met the "letter" of the rules.
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
No doubt, and I totally agree with you on it being a great package.
You have WSBK pass, watch WSBK Yamaha garage videos. One of them is all about the hard detailed work to make braking on R1 top notch, Stoprak has requested brakes not to fade during a race so he does not bother with lever adjustment. Yamaha listened, they went the extra mile to combine best pads/rotors/MC options based on track/temp, and dial in electronics. They did nothing illegal or tricky.

I'm still trying to understand from a physics & mechanics perspective advantages braking like Yamaha boys. If you notice, all Stoprak's passes are on brakes/corner entry. That says something.
 
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You have WSBK pass, watch WSBK Yamaha garage videos. One of them is all about the hard detailed work to make braking on R1 top notch, Stoprak has requested brakes not to fade during a race so he does not bother with lever adjustment. Yamaha listened, they went the extra mile to combine best pads/rotors/MC options based on track/temp, and dial in electronics. They did nothing illegal or tricky.

I'm still trying to understand from a physics & mechanics perspective advantages braking like Yamaha boys. If you notice, all Stoprak's passes are on brakes/corner entry. That says something.
I mean, no doubt they have great brakes, but then so does every other team, I haven't seen what I could call "fade" from any of them except once or twice all season. I think they have the best all around package, and they had the rider to take advantage.

Well, everything's "legal"...until you get caught.;) But then, as I said, as long as it complies with the letter of the rules, it's legal. I have respect for those that can skirt that line but not cross it. For instance, he acid-dipped the chassis to reduce weight.
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