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Discussion Starter #1
A lot of things need to be accomplished by the time you turn your bike into a corner; braking, downshifting, spotting reference points, setting up body position, etc, and it can easily get a little hectic and overwhelming.

How busy do you feel like you are at the point of turn in, and how do you think you that differs from the way the Moto GP guys feel?

How do you think you could alter your riding habits so that you felt LESS busy than you do now?
 

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Not very busy as I (should) have completed all the things I needed to in stages up to the point of apexing:

- body position setup (if needed for the particular turn)
- braking
- eye balling the apex (and exit if visible)
- turning in
- looking for exit and accelerating out

This is a simplified list of actions I go through, but they are typically done in order so as not to overwhelm your focus.
 

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Can I tack a question on to this that I have trouble with?

Say you're on a turn requiring body position setup (butt half off the seat), what percent of your weight is on the pegs, vs. the seat?

Edit: I'll add that I agree with the others, I do try to have everything done before corner entry except for updating my sighting.
 

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Can I tack a question on to this that I have trouble with?

Say you're on a turn requiring body position setup (butt half off the seat), what percent of your weight is on the pegs, vs. the seat?
I don't know that I would consider it "weight" or a percentage as my ass and my feet are doing different things:

Ass: sitting there partially off
Outside Foot: pushing on peg to anchor inner thigh to tank to lock body into place freeing up hands
Inside foot: Providing any additional support—but this is very little since I am using that leg to extend my knee out to gauge my lean angle (dragin' that knee)—my foot is at an angle as opposed to some riders who place the front of their foot on the end of the peg (which is not very good form and if you're low enough you'll drag toe—not good.

In some cases like chicanes, I will weigh my inside foot to assist in steering input to speed up the transition from one side to the other.
 

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If the bike is set up correctly and I'm in the "zone," not busy at all . Everything is coming to me in "slow motion" unless I exceed 10/10ths and require a quick save. Even then that would be considered normal and I continue as if nothing happened. At least that's the way it was when racing. :laugh:

With current track days, when I find myself there, I start saying: "Don't do that. It isn't a race. You can't go there." And it just sucks the fun out of it. :crying: I think I would be happier racing but a condition of getting the HP4 was I wouldn't let myself get sucked back in. I feel like a gambling addict that could only land a job dealing cards for the house in a casino. :rolleyes:
 

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In my opinion, everything should be done by the time one turns in. Only thing left is smooth throttle. Is this correct?
And smooth braking.

But i agree, i'm setup (body position, gear etc) before tip in, all i'm doing from turn in to apex is trail braking.
Then its gas gas gasssss
 
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Discussion Starter #8
In my opinion, everything should be done by the time one turns in. Only thing left is smooth throttle. Is this correct?
True that, yes. You guys are too good! LOL :grin2:

Not very busy as I (should) have completed all the things I needed to in stages up to the point of apexing:

- body position setup (if needed for the particular turn)
- braking
- eye balling the apex (and exit if visible)
- turning in
- looking for exit and accelerating out

This is a simplified list of actions I go through, but they are typically done in order so as not to overwhelm your focus.
"Should have completed" are the operative words here :grin2::grin2: I asked this question because it is something we see a lot at the California Superbike School with students being very busy at the point of turn in. They are often trying to do everything at once at the very last minute. Setting up body position, braking, looking for RP's, turning, looking into the corner....it can get pretty hectic. But you guys all sound like you do a great job of getting the majority of those things done ahead of time! Well done :)

This is how I like to do things. Body position set up super early with as little moment on the bike as possible. Foot pressing off the peg to anchor knee into the tank, butt over to the side 1/2 cheek off. Squeezing the tank with BOTH knees though under hard braking (This helps me prevent myself from sliding forward into the tank)
Spotting Braking RP
Braking
Downshifting
Spotting Apex RP
Turning the bike.
Letting the knee simply fall away from the bike and into the turn...


Now, getting a little bit more specific on one of the points here, when exactly should you be looking for your apex RP?
 

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^ Turn in RP, once I know I can make it, start looking at the apex. I find vision and RPs to be the trickiest part, especially at new tracks.

Where does trail braking fit in steps you mentioned?
 

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This is how I like to do things. Body position set up super early with as little moment on the bike as possible. Foot pressing off the peg to anchor knee into the tank, butt over to the side 1/2 cheek off. Squeezing the tank with BOTH knees though under hard braking (This helps me prevent myself from sliding forward into the tank)
Spotting Braking RP
Braking
Downshifting
Spotting Apex RP
Turning the bike.
Letting the knee simply fall away from the bike and into the turn...


Now, getting a little bit more specific on one of the points here, when exactly should you be looking for your apex RP?
For me depends on the turn and the track layout leading up to that turn. Overall, I feel better if I'm spotting the apex as soon as possible after I've set up my brake and turn in markers. Its at this point (before or right at braking) that I'm looking at different things, moving my eyes from markers to apex to exit constantly since those things are changing as I'm moving forward. This would also depend on how well you know the track and what you can see.

With new riders, I see them trying too many things at once—that's where I feel the right kind of guidance helps immensely. Have new riders learn one or two things at max at a slower pace than they feel they can do. This helps them learn at what point to do certain things to where it becomes a sort of muscle memory—at least that's what's helped me.
 

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If the bike is set up correctly and I'm in the "zone," not busy at all . Everything is coming to me in "slow motion" unless I exceed 10/10ths and require a quick save. Even then that would be considered normal and I continue as if nothing happened. At least that's the way it was when racing. :laugh:
I suppose I should have mentioned this phenomenon is referred to as "Tachpsychia." It is common in self defense situations and I first read about it in gun magazines. I frequently experienced it when racing. Wikipedia doesn't do a great job explaining it but it's close enough.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachypsychia
 

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I suppose I should have mentioned this phenomenon is referred to as "Tachpsychia." It is common in self defense situations and I first read about it in gun magazines. I frequently experienced it when racing. Wikipedia doesn't do a great job explaining it but it's close enough.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachypsychia
I get this experience skateboarding, snowboarding and when I used to—bmx'ing. I get it when I've warmed up for the day—around the 3rd session.
 

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If you are experienced and know the track it should mostly be muscle memory. Save your "ram" for anomalies, traffic, etc. One of my biggest aha moments was setting up my body position before braking if the turn allows time. It's hard to move your body around under braking g's. Second aha was when to apply gas on exit, when you can see through the turn. Even though that sounds simple, fully understanding the concept is more complicated than it seems.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
This is how I like to do things. Body position set up super early with as little moment on the bike as possible. Foot pressing off the peg to anchor knee into the tank, butt over to the side 1/2 cheek off. Squeezing the tank with BOTH knees though under hard braking (This helps me prevent myself from sliding forward into the tank)
Spotting Braking RP
Braking
Downshifting
Spotting Apex RP
Turning the bike.
Letting the knee simply fall away from the bike and into the turn...


Now, getting a little bit more specific on one of the points here, when exactly should you be looking for your apex RP?
^ Turn in RP, once I know I can make it, start looking at the apex. I find vision and RPs to be the trickiest part, especially at new tracks.

Where does trail braking fit in steps you mentioned?
Oops, I forgot to mention the Turn In RP, hahaha and yes, perfect. Once you know you can make the turn in RP then you can start looking for the Apex RP. Turn in RP would come right after Braking RP.

Trailbraking just refers to how long you hold the brake pressure into the corner and when to release the brakes fully and that would depend on the corner. I'd still follow the same steps as listed above:

Braking
Downshifting
Spotting Apex RP
Turning the bike.
Letting the knee simply fall away from the bike and into the turn

I'd just begin to trail (slowly release) the brakes before turning the bike and release fully somewhere after turn in. There isn't any real defining spot with trail braking as it depends on each corner individually. You can trail the brakes deeper and longer in some turns than in others. If I wasn't trailing the brakes then I'd release before turning the bike and if I was trailing the brakes then the release would come somewhere after.

I hope that answers your question? :grin2:
 

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One of the previous AMA champions used to ride down the straights already off the bike (as in never get back upright after the previous corner). When asked why, his response was "to save all body movement possible"...in other words, if he didn't have to get upright for the next turn, he didn't.

In between short corners, I think this works very well. Otherwise, I like to shift on the bike the moment I come off the gas and start the brakes; at that moment, my ass is as light as it's gonna get, and I use gravity to help me get up/off/shift on the seat. I've seen too many students change body position at the last moment at turn in, and upset the bike in the process.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Once I spot my turn in point. Is this the two step drill?
Yes 2-step. But instead of looking into the corner once you spot your turn in point we usually say once you "know that you will hit your turn in point." It's pretty close to the same thing but you have to know you're going to get there. So once you know you will make your turn in point then what do you look at?

One of the previous AMA champions used to ride down the straights already off the bike (as in never get back upright after the previous corner). When asked why, his response was "to save all body movement possible"...in other words, if he didn't have to get upright for the next turn, he didn't.

In between short corners, I think this works very well. Otherwise, I like to shift on the bike the moment I come off the gas and start the brakes; at that moment, my ass is as light as it's gonna get, and I use gravity to help me get up/off/shift on the seat. I've seen too many students change body position at the last moment at turn in, and upset the bike in the process.
I do that when racing as well. I move as little as possible on the bike and rarely ever sit in the middle of the bike. If the corner exiting the straight is a right and the next corner is a right then I just stay off to the side but fully tucked in so that I'm already ready. If it's a super long straight I may slip into the middle full tuck but it depends on the corner and the straight. If it's a right turn exiting the corner then a left after the straight I'll move over to the other side asap. When you set up exactly doesn't matter so much as just being ready for the turn entry. Trying to turn the bike AND hang off at the same time is where riders get into trouble.
 
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