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Every single corner is different, but you are always looking for shortest braking, fastest corner speed, and minimum time to full throttle to get the best laptimes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Are you sure you simply don't have the TC turned up too high?
I have TC on lowest setting, so it's not it.

Yes, line choice will depend on corner, bike power, and rider style.
 

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Yes, line choice will depend on corner, bike power, and rider style.
Corner and power yes, but rider style not so much.
Every time you make changes because of "rider style" you make things slower.
 

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V-line has short length but low apex speeds, and traditional round line has high apex speeds but long driving line. That is why the fastest line is a compromise between those two lines.
That's not true. Fastest line on power bikes is as close to V-line as possible. You gain time on entry and exit, not on your apex speed.
 

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That's not true. Fastest line on power bikes is as close to V-line as possible. You gain time on entry and exit, not on your apex speed.
That's not true. V-line has low average speed while braking, low apex speed, and low average speed on exit. That is why V-line (or "as close to V-line as possible") is not the fastest line with power bikes.
 

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That's not true. V-line has low average speed while braking, low apex speed, and low average speed on exit. That is why V-line (or "as close to V-line as possible") is not the fastest line with power bikes.
Maybe you should try next time ? You're the only one who is spreading this non-sense. I mean no wonder you're always at the back of the pack.
 

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Maybe you should try next time ? You're the only one who is spreading this non-sense. I mean no wonder you're always at the back of the pack.
Well, last time I checked, I was faster than you, and always on front of the pack.
I know that you are always bitter and full of bs, and so does everybody else.
As I said three (or more) yeas ago, your only problem is that you believe in V-line. That is why your speed is not evolving.
 

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Well, last time I checked, I was faster than you, and always on front of the pack.
I know that you are always bitter and full of bs, and so does everybody else.
As I said three (or more) yeas ago, your only problem is that you believe in V-line. That is why your speed is not evolving.
you're hilarious, at least its fun reading your meaningless debates.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
It must be real fun riding with you two lol.

Back to the topic. I find it absurd when someone says X race line is better than Z line without extra details. Each turn has an ideal line, and where a turn falls in a sector dictates ideal (fastest time) line.

Again, it's the time spent through a turn that counts, not apex speed. Apex speed is important, but not as important as time. From looking at simulations & following some of pro riders (can only hang with them for 3-4 turns) they favor long arc lines at most turns, late apex when a turn leads to a straight.

My goal is to come up with a template to apply to new tracks & improving lines at known tracks. Something like this:

90 degree or less turns -> default to late apex (not V line, more roundish than a V line, later apex than a traditional line) depending on next turn/straight
90 degree or plus turns-> default to long arc
A long straight follows a turn -> late apex
Chicanes -> late apex
 

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My goal is to come up with a template to apply to new tracks & improving lines at known tracks.
95% of the problems is caused by too early turn in, which leads to too early apex, and too straight line between turn in and apex.
Turn in later, and keep corner entry more roundish, which leads to late apex, then you have fixed 95% of your problems.
 

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95% of the problems is caused by too early turn in, which leads to too early apex, and too straight line between turn in and apex.
Turn in later, and keep corner entry more roundish, which leads to late apex, then you have fixed 95% of your problems.
Dumb categorization. You need to turn in early, T5 at Portimao is a great example.
 

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Dumb categorization. You need to turn in early, T5 at Portimao is a great example.
Yes, if you want to use (slow) V- line, then you can turn in as early as you want and be dumb and slow.
U-turns are the most typical places where V-line-worshippers have to turn in early because otherwise it would not be a V-line. U-turns are also the places where V-line has its most distinctive V-line shape.

If you want to be smarter and faster at Portimao T5, and use a bit more roundish/ more optimal entry to turn, check some yt videos, for example:


And

 

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Yes, if you want to use (slow) V- line, then you can turn in as early as you want and be dumb and slow.
U-turns are the most typical places where V-line-worshippers have to turn in early because otherwise it would not be a V-line. U-turns are also the places where V-line has its most distinctive V-line shape.

If you want to be smarter and faster at Portimao T5, and use a bit more roundish/ more optimal entry to turn, check some yt videos, for example:


And

this just clearly shows you have no real-world experience and just preaching some half-backed stuff that you read in the book. what's worse you're polluting the minds of people on this forum who then go and fail on track.

MotoGP line through T5 is completely different due to bike having much higher power.
 

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this just clearly shows you have no real-world experience and just preaching some half-backed stuff that you read in the book. what's worse you're polluting the minds of people on this forum who then go and fail on track.

MotoGP line through T5 is completely different due to bike having much higher power.
This, once again, just clearly shows you have no clue what you are talking about.
When you some day get over your V-line phase, you will notice how dumb and stubborn you have been.

I think Canepa and hes friend is not riding a MotoGP bike...
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 · (Edited)
95% of the problems is caused by too early turn in, which leads to too early apex, and too straight line between turn in and apex.
Turn in later, and keep corner entry more roundish, which leads to late apex, then you have fixed 95% of your problems.
Thanks for this!

Now you have posted an example of what you meant by roundish (between v line and traditional line), I got what you are saying.
Canepa and his friend are doing more of long arc turns, you call them roundish, I knew it will come down to terminology. But this style of lines is what pros use.

But see this on how inline for bikes need to be ridden with point & shoot style. And how riding style affect cornering style:
 

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But see this on how inline for bikes need to be ridden with point & shoot style. And how riding style affect cornering style:
If you need to shave the last tenths, hundreds and thousands away from your laptime, then you have to fine tune the riding line a couple of inches here and there if you are using a bike wit a couple of Nm more in midrange vs a couple Nm less.

But if you are seconds away from track record, you really do not need to bother your poor head with those things. Especially if you can not be consistent enough and keep your line inside a couple of feet wide line.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
If you need to shave the last tenths, hundreds and thousands away from your laptime, then you have to fine tune the riding line a couple of inches here and there if you are using a bike wit a couple of Nm more in midrange vs a couple Nm less.
This is to show riding style & bike power go together.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
If you think track day riders like you, and 1000cc bikes, then no, it does not matter.
Even pro riders are 3-4 seconds from track records lol. How about for riders that want to improve what style to stick to? If there is no goal to perfect long arc lines then riders will continue riding traditional or V lines.
 
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