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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, everyone.
First of all an in advance, sorry for the long post, I tried to post as much info as I could in order for you guys to understand where I'm coming from.

Like the title states, I need some help/advice with possible purchase of new 2022 S1000R.
I am going to buy a new sportbike this year and I've narrowed it down to s1000rr, RSV4 factory or cbr1000RR sp.
For reference, because it matters in my choice, I live on an island that does not have a BMW Motorrad dealer. This sucks big time.
And this sucks big time because, as far as I've seen from wondering around in this forum, the s1000rr is anything but reliable. And not having access to a dealership can become quite an issue if I have problems with the bike. Warranty claims, particularly, will be problematic.

Regarding other choices:
  • Don't care much for R1, zx-10r or gsx-r. All either have old tech or are uncomfortable for the road.
  • I would love the 2022 Ducati V4s, but in my country it's over €30k (and also no local/island dealer), so that's pretty much discarded.
  • New RSV4 model has been quite reliable so far (previous generation valve-related issues were solved) and the local Aprilia dealer is great.
  • Honda is, well, Honda... and I have a very close relationship with the local dealer. I love the way the fireblade looks, I love the way it sounds. I do hate the gearing and riding position, though... and the price is hard to swallow. The BMW also has a lot more extras and costs less.


The s1000rr?? Well, I love the riding position, comfort and all the tech. That TFT display is gorgeous! The bike is light, handles great and has an awesome engine. To make things better, I can get a sweet deal/discount on one from the mainland. But... no local dealer. On an island...with a bike with a very sketchy reliability background... I hope you all get my concerns.

So, what advice do I require?
Well, I would like to know if the known issues with the S1000RR have been fixed with the 2022 model. Yes, I know that, officially, nothing was announced that would indicate that. But manufacturers do make silent updates, especially to parts that show a higher than expected failure ratio.

From what I was able to gather, the K67 has, since it was launched, shown several issues, like the following:
  • Forks leaking and/or clunking
  • Brakes leaking
  • Engine failing (conrods failing, cylinder 3?)
  • piston/wrist pin issue (cylinder 1?)
  • failing coils
  • carbon rims failing
  • cold start issue

There are a few more, but unless I missed something, these are the most relevant.
So my question is: have these been addressed already?
Some, I think have been. The brakes are different, I think the carbon rims design or manufacture process have been fixed/improved, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
I thought the forks leaking were fixed, but I just saw a couple of videos on youtube and now I'm not so sure. I think they leaked heavily before and now it's much much less, but it doesn't appear to have been fully fixed. Again, feel free to correct me.
My biggest concern is that it seems, at least apparently, that the engine has a critical design flaw. Something to do with the piston/wrist pin which is a significant weak point, meaning it's only a matter of time before it fails. It's not a matter of if, but rather when. A time bomb.
So I would like to know if anyone is aware if BMW did a silent fix on this issue. I don't think it's all that easy to do without a redesign and if they did that, they would announce it freely and happily. But then again, I'm not mechanically inclined, so I could be wrong.

tldr: I'm concerned of a catastrophic engine failure, so I would like to know if they fixed or at least improved the piston/rod/wrist pin issues for the 2022 model.
The other issues as well, but particularly this one.

Sorry for the long read and thanks in advance for any info, help or advice.
Much appreciated.

P.S.
Disclaimer: I'm a long-time user of forums.
I do know how they work. I am well aware of the fact that people tend to be more vocal about problems rather than not. But there is a lot of smoke here. A lot more than in other brands' forums, so the issues are real and widespread, not just mere normal isolated incidents.
 

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Reading what you wrote and in the context of how I think you feel... Go buy another brand. dont get a BMW. I am not going to sit here and blow smoke up your @ss and try to convince you when you already stated that most will complain, and few come to brag.
 

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Well I'm biased as fk and say get the BMW. Ride the crap out of mine and had 0 issues. Love it. Would never buy anything else.
I am with you on the feelings.. I own 7 BMW S1000RR right now.. including the very hard to get M1000RR ( K66 )
 
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Stick to a local dealer brand. I’ve never had an issue either with my bmw but for piece of mind it makes sense to stick with someone local. Especially on an island!
 

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Without a local BMW dealership, I would not get one. Otherwise BMW is the best street bike.

I would go with Honda SP, as you said riding position is not for the street, but with a seat/rearsets it's adjustable. Also, if you get 2022 SP, gearing, air intake, low end torque have all been optimized.
For the money, you are getting a bike that competes with M1000RR and V4R. So even though it's more than a base bike, but you are getting a lot. It's lacking forged wheels, rest is top notch.

For the street, RSV4 factory would be my 2nd choice. It's also nice a machine if Italian is your thing.
 
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  • New RSV4 model has been quite reliable so far (previous generation valve-related issues were solved) and the local Aprilia dealer is great.
  • Honda is, well, Honda... and I have a very close relationship with the local dealer. I love the way the fireblade looks, I love the way it sounds. I do hate the gearing and riding position, though... and the price is hard to swallow.
Having an Aprilla dealer nearby is an miracle! It is mostly the opposite for most and then to get parts is a very long wait to say the least!
As far as the Honda I guess you are referring to the RRR model. Yes, its not cheap and the gearing is an simple fix but not the riding position! Aftermarket rearsets go up and back not down, its rare to find rearsets that go down from stock position.

Im not brand biased in anyway.

As far as the BMW its had its issues no doubt, but its the best all around liter bike on the market, IMO. But not having a dealer nearby is an issue, just to get the rev limiter removed in 600 miles. You could buy the GS911 and remove the rev limiter yourself though.
Tough decision for you
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for the replies so far, guys.
I guess no one knows for sure if a silent update on the piston/wrist pin issue was carried out for the 2022 or not.
Anyone knows anything about the leaking forks or the cold start issue?
I'm pretty sure the latter has been fixed, I just wanted confirmation on that.


I would go with Honda SP(...) gearing, air intake, low end torque have all been optimized.
The final ratio was shortened, three fewer teeth in rear sprocket. But it still has very long gears from 1st to 4th. It's a very strange choice taken by honda. I'm bewildered every time I see youtube videos of the previous/current version and I see the riders riding the bike in first gear in the twisties. There was even one who showed him overtaking a slow moving car in second gear with full throttle and it was painful to watch. I had a 03 954 fireblade and if I whacked the throttle open in second gear, I would be laying with my back flat on the road in less than a second. It had to be progressive or the bike would flip over.
The low end and midrange torque have, allegedly, been optimized for 2022, but by reading the list of changes, I don't really think the difference will be considerable.
Hope I'm wrong, though. Maybe the sum of both updates will turn out to be effective.


For the street, RSV4 factory would be my 2nd choice. It's also nice a machine if Italian is your thing.
Yeah, I love Aprilias, always been a fan. Wish the seat was a little lower, though. We have many roads here that aren't exactly flat and level. Easy to drop a bike if your reach to the ground is not generous.




Having an Aprilla dealer nearby is an miracle! It is mostly the opposite for most and then to get parts is a very long wait to say the least!
6 miles away from my house. Less than 10 minutes driving a car at legal speeds... 5 minutes if riding a sportsbike. 😁

The local dealer is great and is quite concerned about customer satisfaction. Their mechanic is quite knowledgeable and very professional.
Even the national importer is quite approachable, believe it or not.
Regarding parts, well, yes, I guess they are limited by what the manufacturer is able to provide them. I admit I don't know if it's a problem in my country or not.



As far as the Honda I guess you are referring to the RRR model. Yes, its not cheap and the gearing is an simple fix but not the riding position! Aftermarket rearsets go up and back not down, its rare to find rearsets that go down from stock position.
Well, the gearing is actually not that easy to change... yes, you can change final drive ratio by changing one or both of the transmission sprockets, but the electronics will go awire.
The Aprilia has an auto-calibration feature, the Honda does not. I found this out on a Honda forum and had the local dealer contact the national importer to confirm it. They did. I'm not 100% sure about the rest of the electronics, but I know for sure that at least the traction control will not work properly.
The new 2022 version does have three more teeth in the rear sprocket, which helps, but individual gearing remains the same. Meaning: four very long gears.

The rearsets, though... I admit I thought it would be easier. I never bought aftermarket rearsets, so I don't have experience with them.
I owned an MV F4312R before and had to sell it because after just 30 minutes of riding, my hip would hurt. So that's an issue for me. Crap.
I guess I could go something along the lines of an adjustable footpeg instead of a rearset, as these can be set (rotated) to a lower position, but I believe the range of adjustability is somewhat limited with these. I'll have to look into it a little better.


As far as the BMW its had its issues no doubt, but its the best all around liter bike on the market, IMO.
IMO as well, that's precisely why I was considering it as my number one option. It's the best street bike.
I love sportsbikes but we have no tracks/circuits here, so it's 100% public roads riding for me. And occasionally I do like to go out for a calm, long "sunday" style riding, whether it's sunday or not. I couldn't do that with the MV.
Just because I own a sportsbike doesn't mean I have to give it 100% full throttle all the time, every time, right? Besides, sometimes I go out with friends who either don't have fast bikes or, for those who do, sometimes we just want to go out in a group and enjoy the ride and the scenery. And for this, the general consensus is that the S1000RR is, by far, the best in nearly all aspects, if not all.

Hence the nature of my dilemma. Because... no dealer on the island.
 

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Well, IMO the Honda is an track bike. Honda CBR 1Ks of the past were known for their midrange power and comfort. That is not the case with this Honda as its all top end power now except in the USA where everything thing is neutered, an ECU flash is a must have.

For what you are looking to do with the bike, the BMW would be the best fit. There are times I just ride normal and site see on the BMW, yes you dont have to go fast all the time.
But you not having a dealer around is an major issue for sure and in that case I might lean toward the Aprilla.
 

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tldr: I'm concerned of a catastrophic engine failure, so I would like to know if they fixed or at least improved the piston/rod/wrist pin issues for the 2022 model.
The other issues as well, but particularly this one.
I'm not concerned about the catastrophic engine failure and I am among the tiny few (2-3 here) that have experienced it. Brentuning says that they've seen a few that have been from early builds like mine. Maybe they have made minor changes that improve the reliability, though the engine statistical reliability was very good regardless. Put your risks into perspective, e.g., you are more likely to have a bad crash than total engine failure like mine.

Do you have a superbike brand dealership on your island? How difficult and expensive is it to transport a bike to the nearest dealer off the island? These answers would heavily bias my decision.

As for some of your specifics:
  • Brakes leaking - fixed per caliper recall and change. I assume they've changed away from the Hayes outside the US also.
  • Engine failing (conrods failing, cylinder 3?) - discussed above. Rare issue that may have been addressed already.
  • piston/wrist pin issue (cylinder 1?) - same as above.
  • failing coils - This seemed to be a common problem that I don't hear about anymore.
  • carbon rims failing - never an issue. Some early builds had cracking in the lacquer, but that was cosmetic, and I haven't heard anything more recently. Mine are fine after 17k miles.
  • cold start issue - emissions tune in some bikes and places. Brentuning totally fixes start and idle, though my bike never had the issue. I don't know about the Euro tune. Regardless, it would be nothing more than a slight annoyance.
 

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Ok here’s my opinion with a bit of proof in regards to the new “Factory”….

I bought this bike about a month ago(end of November 2021)… I love the bike, HOWEVER!!!

1. Be prepared to change some things and do a bit of wrench twisting. The dealer prep sheet had to have been filled out by Stevie Wonder on my bike as ZERO was actually performed, from checking fasteners to wheel alignment. My rear wheel was offset in the swingarm at least 1/4 inch at the adjusters. The oil pan bolts not at spec, it seeped oil almost immediately. The primary drive sprocket cover bolts were loose, falling out loose.

2. Bike didn’t like stock fueling at times and it revealed itself on throttle chop-stall outs. It’s just one of those things I chalk up to the Euro-5 garbage that is no longer a factor on my bike.

3. The stock Red seat is dirty as soon as you sit on it and it’s harder than a brick. I changed the seat within a few days. The Aprilia gel seat in black is way better, but it puts you higher than the red seat so if you’re short be aware.

I’ve pretty much removed all the body work and went over everything and it’s all good now. Personally I don’t think the bike would have made it to the 600 mile service(currently 500 miles clocked)without something falling off if I’d hadn’t checked the whole bike.

Above in the beginning I mentioned I love the bike and I do. What I don’t love is dealers releasing a bike that wasn’t inspected properly.

To the OP, if you’re mechanically inclined then try the RSV4. It’s fun to me but might not be to you, it’s a power house down low(tire ripper lol) and linear. Its a completely different style of riding to an in-line motor so if you’ve no experience with V motors then maybe opt for another bike.

View attachment 220277
The bike comes in a crate almost put together. Those items you described are done at the factory, wheels, sprocket cover, oil pan bolts, etc not the dealer.
 

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The bike comes in a crate almost put together. Those items you described are done at the factory, wheels, sprocket cover, oil pan bolts, etc not the dealer.
You need to keep in mind this is Aprilia, it comes with few oil pan bolts loose, exhaust bracket hanging, valves already bent. It leaves making the bike proper as an exercise to the owner like what IronMaiden had to do.

On a serious note, mentioned items should have been caught by dealership. But looks like most dealership do not give a damn. They just wanna sell bikes.
 

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I can post a pic of the check sheet for Mr. “not the dealer” but I won’t. It is what it is, just be sure to check any brand bike for the “Monday build”….
 

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If thats the case where oil pan bolts and what not are not properly done at the factory, I would scratch Aprilla off the list! Thats ridiculous
 

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Why not the 10R? The 21 is a refresh with new tech. While not as good all around as the BMW, it's pretty good and is a better value. In the US, you can almost buy 2 10Rs for one CBR 1000RRR.

Better factory suspension
Better factory brakes
Better perceived reliability
Has many of the newer motorcycle luxury items
 

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Why not the 10R? The 21 is a refresh with new tech. While not as good all around as the BMW, it's pretty good and is a better value. In the US, you can almost buy 2 10Rs for one CBR 1000RRR.
I read on that California Superbike School in the UK has switched to the 10R so that's a pretty good indicator.

Also, I would be very reluctant to buy a complex, modern bike of any brand w/o a dealer nearby or at least on the same island.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hello, guys.

First of all, big thanks to all of you for the help, much appreciated.

Secondly, I would like to ask one more question.
Is it safe to assume that the picture bellow is from a 2021 model and not a 2022?
I believe the 2022 came with different calipers, right? In the case of the M package, even the colour is different (blue), correct? Not just the hardware itself (nissin) but also the colour.

Tire Wheel Fuel tank Vehicle Automotive lighting



Are there any other visual clues that can help differentiate a 2021 model from a 22?
 

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Hello, guys.

First of all, big thanks to all of you for the help, much appreciated.

Secondly, I would like to ask one more question.
Is it safe to assume that the picture bellow is from a 2021 model and not a 2022?
I believe the 2022 came with different calipers, right? In the case of the M package, even the colour is different (blue), correct? Not just the hardware itself (nissin) but also the colour.

View attachment 220355


Are there any other visual clues that can help differentiate a 2021 model from a 22?
The 21 and 22 calipers are the same aside from color. Those calipers look like the 2020-early 21 version.
 
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