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You can not brake 80-100%, if you lean 10-15%. You would need 95-110% of traction.
Incorrect. Do you think top riders brake 100% when they only have zero lean? Think again.
Time to learn something new. I rarely brake 100% when the bike has zero lean. Usually 5-15% lean depending on the turn.

Watch WSBK and any top riders you will see them doing their hardest part of braking with some lean. Without that makes turning the bike even harder.
 

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I think he is working from the "100 points of traction" premise, so that if you use 100% of your traction on braking then the tires have none left to compensate for lean.

Maybe when you say 100% of braking you mean braking that uses up all of the available traction that is not being used by lean angle?
 

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Incorrect. Do you think top riders brake 100% when they only have zero lean? Think again.
Time to learn something new. I rarely brake 100% when the bike has zero lean. Usually 5-15% lean depending on the turn.

Watch WSBK and any top riders you will see them doing their hardest part of braking with some lean. Without that makes turning the bike even harder.
You can not brake 80-100%, if you lean 10-15%. You would need 95-110% of traction.

But of course, in your vivid imagination you can do, and see, what ever you want. Lol.
 

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From a pro rider: 100 brake pressure at 10-15% lean angle inside green lines angle. You actually need to look at front/rear tire profiles in your hand on the floor to see why it's possible. Great short clip on it I found. Too bad it took me few seasons to find that out lol. Of course it took practice and some crashes to feel natural.


213648
 

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From a pro rider: 100 brake pressure at 10-15% lean angle inside green lines angle. You actually need to look at front/rear tire profiles in your hand on the floor to see why it's possible. Great short clip on it I found. Too bad it took me few seasons to find that out lol. Of course it took practice and some crashes to feel natural.
So, if you are really bad with brakes, you can brake 100% even if you are leaning 50-75%, or what ever.
But yeah, I get it, your 100% brakes can be what ever, and the needed traction for 100% braking can be what ever between 0 and 100%.

And btw, the green line is more like 25% of the lean angle, so dont be so shy with your braking, just brake 100%, and lean at least 25%.
 

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And btw, the green line is more like 25% of the lean angle, so dont be so shy with your braking, just brake 100%, and lean at least 25%.
You usually have good practical feedback, but on this one, I'm gonna stick with what I know works well. That is why there are different styles to make a bike turn fast.
If you have ridden a ZX10, you know how stable and hard to turn them in, in many corners pro racers steer the bike with the rear not the front. There are many ways to peel a pineapple lol.
 

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You usually have good practical feedback, but on this one, I'm gonna stick with what I know works well. That is why there are different styles to make a bike turn fast.
If you have ridden a ZX10, you know how stable and hard to turn them in, in many corners pro racers steer the bike with the rear not the front. There are many ways to peel a pineapple lol.
Yeah, have you seen those hard core pros who are driving a ZX10 backwards. As you said, it is easyer to steer with rear wheel, that is why they turn so fast. Lol.
 

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so, you keep the front brake on during the turn prior to rolling on the throttle enough to keep the front end loaded, smaller rake, etc. as mentioned above, but not so much that you risk low siding while making the turn. right?
 

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^ Right.....
 
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Still looking for a definition. For example does "easier to steer" = less handlebar pressure? If not, then what?
to me it's force on handlebars: lean angle ratio being lower. at least in thinking about bike to bike comparison, would assume the perspective is the same?
 

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Still looking for a definition. For example does "easier to steer" = less handlebar pressure?
It may, but I do not know.

My Ducati turn in much more quickly than my S1000RR. I do not know if this is because it takes less pressure on the handlebar or because there is something else going on. They definitely feel more flickable.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
From my point of view the problem remains that "easier to steer" as a term has no real clear definition. It may seem that I'm getting into semantics but if you take another look it really is a valid question, in my opinion at least.
 

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I would define easier to steer as:

Given the same corner, rider, entry speed, braking pressure, gear, body position, etc... the total effort needed to lean the bike into the corner (from upright to leaned). Not only handlebar input, but also peg pressure, outside/inside leg pressure, etc... In this case a lighter bike would be easier to steer than a bigger one (600 Vs 1000) or a bike with dialed in geometry and suspension setup Vs another that is not.

Does this answer the question?
 

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Discussion Starter #40
I would define easier to steer as:

Given the same corner, rider, entry speed, braking pressure, gear, body position, etc... the total effort needed to lean the bike into the corner (from upright to leaned). Not only handlebar input, but also peg pressure, outside/inside leg pressure, etc... In this case a lighter bike would be easier to steer than a bigger one (600 Vs 1000) or a bike with dialed in geometry and suspension setup Vs another that is not.

Does this answer the question?
Yes. That does answer the question.

However when trailing the brakes does it require less handlebar pressure? Most riders report that under trail braking the steering feels heavier meaning more resistance at the handlebars. Along those same lines most riders report that under throttle the handlebars feel lighter.
 
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