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Slaki asked: Correct me if I am wrong. I am not riding hard enough for the traction to kick in right? Only turn 2 and 5 it kicks in right?

No and yes.

No part:

The problem is that you have a regular/repeating error in your driving line and/or throttle control.
Turning in just a bit too early, and/or opening throttle 0-30% too early (while in max lean angle).
So, if you now start riding (trying) harder, AND you have that regular error -> that is the most common combination for a hi-sider among fast/race riders.

And, 2 and 5 are the slowest corners of the track, right?
You can not compaire slow/medium/fast corners 1:1:1, because you have different torque (different gear and RPM) available at rear tyre.
And also you have different settings in DTC for slow/medium/fast corners.


Yes part:

You are riding close to tyre traction limit, very close to limit in slow corners.
Also, if you have notised, most of the hi-siders for any (fast) rider occurs in a slow corner (and collar bone snaps).
That's because typically a rider is much more cautious in medium and fast turns.
So yes, you could "ride harder" in medium/fast turns.
BUT, then you would hi-side from a greater speed, 2X...4X higher energy, multiple broken bones etc and season is over.

Additional part:

So my advise is that first fix your line and throttle control, and then ride harder.
The difference is;
If you do not fix the errors, you will hi-side very soon, you will not be faster, you just try harder.
But if you fix those, you will be faster, and then you will hi-side. So at least you get some very good results before hi-siding.

If you f-up line before (late) apex, you can not fix that with throttle after apex, because your line after apex does not allow that.
Causation is the real enemy.
If you still try to fix it with throttle, you will hi-side.

Turn in just a bit later/calmly/smoother, and you can pick the bike up earlier.
And because of that you can open the throttle (keep it linear!) faster and harder.
That is what you want, to open the throttle faster and harder, right?

If your line before apex is correct then also the line after apex is correct, and that allows you to use throttle.
https://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/...gger-instruction-resources-8.html#post2309734
https://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/...gger-instruction-resources-7.html#post2289436

General blah blah slogans or something:
Do not try to be faster, you will crash.
Try to be better, and the speed will follow/ and you will be faster.

And a pic, causation between touching throttle too early, and line going wide/ not able to pick up the bike: http://racedac.com/s1000rr/TouchingThrottleEarlyDoesNotMakeYouFast.png
Hi @speedfinn, hope all is well with you. Thank you for all your help and sharing knowledge of datalogger.

I am having an issue where I have the data but the tool will not import to create the .mes file. Do you know what I can do to convert the ldd and data files to .mes?

Thank you!!
 

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Hi @speedfinn, hope all is well with you. Thank you for all your help and sharing knowledge of datalogger.

I am having an issue where I have the data but the tool will not import to create the .mes file. Do you know what I can do to convert the ldd and data files to .mes?

Thank you!!
Well, at least i seems that wrist and credit card balance is going to right direction, but then there is also bike, which is still in same condition as it was after the crash. So, two out of three...

Put the stick in, open the "2D-Datarecording"-folder, remove all .ini and .txt -files, remove the stick, put the stick back in. Magic happens.
 

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Well, at least i seems that wrist and credit card balance is going to right direction, but then there is also bike, which is still in same condition as it was after the crash. So, two out of three...

Put the stick in, open the "2D-Datarecording"-folder, remove all .ini and .txt -files, remove the stick, put the stick back in. Magic happens.
I’m sorry but I do not remember, what parts need replacing on your bike?

I am happy to hear your wrist and credit card are doing well! I was fortunate enough to increase my salary in the last six months, hopefully it continues, as race season takes lots of money, around $1500 per round.

Thank you for the advice, this has fixed the data and it is importing now. Although I have never deleted data from the stick usb; so it is reimporting whole year of data! :laugh:

I have 85 rate spring, which is too soft. I found that in rain mode I go fully open on throttle many times per lap, but in slick mode I cannot without the rear collapsing. This makes me feel better, as I thought the only problem was with my balls being too small. I’m sure they are too small still, but good to know they are not the only reason I cannot fully open throttle :laugh:
 

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I’m sorry but I do not remember, what parts need replacing on your bike?

I am happy to hear your wrist and credit card are doing well! I was fortunate enough to increase my salary in the last six months, hopefully it continues, as race season takes lots of money, around $1500 per round.

Thank you for the advice, this has fixed the data and it is importing now. Although I have never deleted data from the stick usb; so it is reimporting whole year of data! :laugh:

I have 85 rate spring, which is too soft. I found that in rain mode I go fully open on throttle many times per lap, but in slick mode I cannot without the rear collapsing. This makes me feel better, as I thought the only problem was with my balls being too small. I’m sure they are too small still, but good to know they are not the only reason I cannot fully open throttle :laugh:
Well, I have not checked so I do not know. But at least the display unit. If you use slow motion, you can see it flying away with my timing phone at 0:08.

Next time you can check the time stamps of those files and delete only the most recent one.

 

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Slaki asked: Correct me if I am wrong. I am not riding hard enough for the traction to kick in right? Only turn 2 and 5 it kicks in right?

No and yes.

No part:

The problem is that you have a regular/repeating error in your driving line and/or throttle control.
Turning in just a bit too early, and/or opening throttle 0-30% too early (while in max lean angle).
So, if you now start riding (trying) harder, AND you have that regular error -> that is the most common combination for a hi-sider among fast/race riders.

And, 2 and 5 are the slowest corners of the track, right?
You can not compaire slow/medium/fast corners 1:1:1, because you have different torque (different gear and RPM) available at rear tyre.
And also you have different settings in DTC for slow/medium/fast corners.


Yes part:

You are riding close to tyre traction limit, very close to limit in slow corners.
Also, if you have notised, most of the hi-siders for any (fast) rider occurs in a slow corner (and collar bone snaps).
That's because typically a rider is much more cautious in medium and fast turns.
So yes, you could "ride harder" in medium/fast turns.
BUT, then you would hi-side from a greater speed, 2X...4X higher energy, multiple broken bones etc and season is over.

Additional part:

So my advise is that first fix your line and throttle control, and then ride harder.
The difference is;
If you do not fix the errors, you will hi-side very soon, you will not be faster, you just try harder.
But if you fix those, you will be faster, and then you will hi-side. So at least you get some very good results before hi-siding.

If you f-up line before (late) apex, you can not fix that with throttle after apex, because your line after apex does not allow that.
Causation is the real enemy.
If you still try to fix it with throttle, you will hi-side.

Turn in just a bit later/calmly/smoother, and you can pick the bike up earlier.
And because of that you can open the throttle (keep it linear!) faster and harder.
That is what you want, to open the throttle faster and harder, right?

If your line before apex is correct then also the line after apex is correct, and that allows you to use throttle.
https://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/...gger-instruction-resources-8.html#post2309734
https://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/...gger-instruction-resources-7.html#post2289436

General blah blah slogans or something:
Do not try to be faster, you will crash.
Try to be better, and the speed will follow/ and you will be faster.

And a pic, causation between touching throttle too early, and line going wide/ not able to pick up the bike: http://racedac.com/s1000rr/TouchingThrottleEarlyDoesNotMakeYouFast.png
I have listened to you and tried my best to have a look at all my Apex's yesterday and found that if I Apex later, I could get on the gas sooner and harder as you predicted. But obviously riding the same stupid way for the last couple of years, its difficult to get away from bad habits.

I have found that if I apex later (Almost all my corners) especially turn 2 and 5 that I am faster and feel alot smoother when getting on the gas. I managed to loose another 0.7 of a second on a set of tyres that were actually 160 laps old. I felt comfortable going fast Yesterday and by getting my fitness level up, I should be able to maintain those times for the whole race. I believe that I am still making a few mistakes which I need to give attention to, but at least after taking your suggestions into consideration, I managed to gain some time comfortably. I will send you the data for yesterday should you have some more suggestions for me.
 

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I have listened to you and tried my best to have a look at all my Apex's yesterday and found that if I Apex later, I could get on the gas sooner and harder as you predicted. But obviously riding the same stupid way for the last couple of years, its difficult to get away from bad habits.

I have found that if I apex later (Almost all my corners) especially turn 2 and 5 that I am faster and feel alot smoother when getting on the gas. I managed to loose another 0.7 of a second on a set of tyres that were actually 160 laps old. I felt comfortable going fast Yesterday and by getting my fitness level up, I should be able to maintain those times for the whole race. I believe that I am still making a few mistakes which I need to give attention to, but at least after taking your suggestions into consideration, I managed to gain some time comfortably. I will send you the data for yesterday should you have some more suggestions for me.
Yes, your own mind is the worst enemy. It will trick you (imagination) and lie to you (you are going fast!), and in makes you do things (makes you slow) what you really do not want to do, and then f-ups memory (you feel comfortable and safe), so you do not understand what you are doing (you look at data and you think "No way!"). And no, you are not insane, average human mind just works like that.

I would guess there is still at least two easy seconds to be taken in a bit later/calmly/smoother turn in. Which changes apex to be later, and keeps your risk-level at the same level.

Of course it is a totally different situation, if the race is on and there is someone behind you and you want to "keep the door shut". Then you can not optimise your driving line for lap times/ you will be slower, and if the rider in front of you is a sneaky b***h, he will make a couple of fast laps and you can not catch him anymore.

But anyhow, it does not matter what line you are taking before apex, you should always start to pick up the bike at the same time when you are increasing throttle.
Now you are still not doing that.

I made a small table of your fastest lap. How to read it: In turn one, you start to open up throttle, and 3.3 seconds later; throttle twist grip position is 57%, and bike chassis lean angle is 46 degrees, and then you start picking up the bike.

Worst example is in turn seven (fliking bike from right to left), throttle twist grip 65% and bike chassis lean angle 60 degrees. As you know, you can have either max lean angle or max throttle, you can not have both at the same time. If you have both at the same time, you wil hi-side. So push 10-15% more and you get the reward...

And no, you will not crash because you are driving fast or faster, you will crash only because you do some wrong things together.

So, still, change your turn in style, it will change your line to apex, that will change your apex location, and your line after apex will change, and you will be able to pick up the bike after apex.

Turn/Time/Twist Grip/Lean angle
1 3,3 57 46
2 3,3 84 46
3 1,1 79 42
4 3,1 100 46
5 2,0 60 39
6 2,0 32 52
7 0,6 65 60
8 2,1 71 46
 

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I will go through the data now and have a look at your notes below. will try and see what I can do to fix these errors.

How accurate is the lean angle data? 60 degrees correct? :surprise:
If it is correct and you mention it the way you do, I now notice how close I am to the limit in turn 7. (60 degrees at 65% Throttle)
 

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I will go through the data now and have a look at your notes below. will try and see what I can do to fix these errors.

How accurate is the lean angle data? 60 degrees correct? :surprise:
If it is correct and you mention it the way you do, I now notice how close I am to the limit in turn 7. (60 degrees at 65% Throttle)
Lean angle data is accurate, but it is bike chassis lean angle.
So it does not know if there is camber in the track.
And also it is not the effective lean angle, because tyre contact patch is not on the center line of the bike when you lean over.
So you also have to interpret a little bit those absolute values.

If you have correct line while trail braking, hit the correct apex, and you have correct line while linearily opening the throttle, and track is "flat" (longitudinally and laterally), and suspension and tyres work ok, then you should typically have a lean angle of 58-60 degrees in every apex.

You should take a look at your lean angle graph. The shape of the graph tells you more than individual absolute values.
If the value changes linealily, then you are doing things correctly.
If the value stays about the same for a longer period (seconds), then you are (usually) doing things wrong. Of course there are exeptions, for example, if the track is very narrow, and there is a very long U-turn, obviously you must maintain the same lean angle for longer period.
 

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I have installed the 2d front sensor (6k potmeter, working well when checking resistance), and dash does show option for front compression and rebound (instead of just damping).

Then we tried to calibrate using the dash menu.

However, on the HP logger, my front reading is weird
1) Cannot set zero position for the front. We installed the sensor at 412mm length when the front wheel is lifted off the ground and pressed further to fully extend it, but it keeps stuck in this 6mm reading. We have tried to put the front sensor in different position and press calibrate, but it wont learn the new position as zero.

2) Logged reading direction is reversed. When fork is compressed, it goes to -10mm then saturates there. When I test it fully extended, the logger reads about 30-40mm reading.

We tried to check the wiring, but it is weird also, can someone verify?
pin 1 is red wire on sensor, but blue/purple on harness, 0V to chassis
pin 3 is black on sensor, but blue/red on harness, 5V to chassis


On the logger setting, I have selected option 9 (s1000rr 2015+). My bike is .2017
 

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Last night the ignition was turned off while the starter was cranking over. So in other words, while the datalogger was "Starting up", the ignition was switched off. Now the datalogger does not want to come on.

I checked all fuses, they are all fine.
I removed the battery for about two hours, did not work.
Plugged the datalogger out and back in, nothing...

Any advice?

It happened before a while ago and all I did was removed the battery, but now that does not work.
 

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Last night the ignition was turned off while the starter was cranking over. So in other words, while the datalogger was "Starting up", the ignition was switched off. Now the datalogger does not want to come on.

I checked all fuses, they are all fine.
I removed the battery for about two hours, did not work.
Plugged the datalogger out and back in, nothing...

Any advice?

It happened before a while ago and all I did was removed the battery, but now that does not work.
Apologies for the double post. Plugged the datalogger into another bike and its working. Will try on my bike later and give feedback.
 

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Apologies for the double post. Plugged the datalogger into another bike and its working. Will try on my bike later and give feedback.
Note to self... Always ensure the cluster is plugged in... Data logger does not work without the cluster.
 

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I created a very simple video that shows how to set a start/finish line.

This thread has seemingly veered away from its title subject and into tips about riding technique. However, I am struggling with mastering basic functionality of the HP Datalogger software, like loading a file or then viewing the file in its entirety, etc. As many have noted, this software is not very intuitive and the "help documents" that come with it don't offer a lot of assistance with regard to basic file operations. Does anyone know if there is a thorough tutorial on the use of the software anywhere out there? I have yet to find it. Thanks so much to Dylan for posting that video...has he made any more, perhaps? :)
 

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Discussion Starter #98
This thread has seemingly veered away from its title subject and into tips about riding technique. However, I am struggling with mastering basic functionality of the HP Datalogger software, like loading a file or then viewing the file in its entirety, etc. As many have noted, this software is not very intuitive and the "help documents" that come with it don't offer a lot of assistance with regard to basic file operations. Does anyone know if there is a thorough tutorial on the use of the software anywhere out there? I have yet to find it. Thanks so much to Dylan for posting that video...has he made any more, perhaps? :)
I never got around to doing more for a few reasons; my technical proficiency is not really at a level where I can offer advice freely on how to use/trouble shoot the systems. I'll get it working and find what I'm looking for but resolving problems takes me some time and I don't want to misrepresent myself as a program guru. Then I got distracted on some other technical elements at our school and was not using the datalogger as much. When the datalogger comes out for the K67 I think I may dive back in. Speedfinn might be able to offer some help.
 
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