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Starting a separate thread to document my experience with some charging system issues and Deltran BMS Lithium battery.

My situation: my 2015 S1000RR needed a new battery about two months ago and went with a Deltran "Smart" Lithium battery. This battery has a built in managment system and seems (or seemed) to be a great way to go. Between the time I replaced the battery and the more recent issues, I was traveling a fair bit and didn't really ride much except for a bit of commuting.

Recently: I started getting ABS errors and a whacked out instrument guage. All of this was root caused to over-voltage conditions. This was verified with error codes pulled via GS-911. And verified by direct measurements with DVM. Voltage would vary to over 17-18 volts. Variation coincided with RPM. Variation sort of seemed like bad rectification, like catching only a half-wave of the AC...probably not the reality.

First suspect in all of this was the voltage rectifier/regulator. Here are some things I've learned about the voltage regulator:
- the voltage regulator across all years is sourced from Shindengen.
- it is a Mosfet shunt type design (not straight-up diode)
- testing of a Mosfet design is similar to testing of standard diode-only designs, except the voltage drop across one side is only 0.1v versus 0.4'ish.
- a good video to test the regulator is here:
- the voltage regulator across all model year bikes is said to be the same part number, but it is NOT the same part.
- sometime around 2014 there was a change to the voltage regulator from a FH012 to FH020 type; there's also a wiring/fusing change.
- the data for the part type change is here: https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/v/EMESERVER/Euro MotoElectrics/12_001_15_005_Alternator_regulator.pdf
- to remove the regulator, the easiest way I found was to suspend the back half of the bike from the ceiling, and then disconnect the shock at the top AND bottom mounts, you can then access the voltage regulator pretty easily, but you don't have to completely remove the shock.


Back to my situation...I did my initial testing of the voltage regulator and suspected an issue when I measured the 0.1v drop. I did a swap with a replacement OEM regulator. Things seemed OK for a while...short rides to work. But, then on a long ride, the bike wigged out again. That's when I learned about the correct testing approach and figured out my original regulator was ok.

I did the standard tests on the stator. Don't have the web links handy, but this is the resistance testing and testing open circuit to ground across all three phases. Everything thing looked good. And given that I had over-voltage issue, I didn't suspect a burned out stator.

My next effort was to swap back to a standard AGM battery. I found a few comments elsewhere that mentioned a lithium battery (when fully charged) might not provide sufficient load for the BMW charging system to function properly. Hmm...not sure I see the mechanism for that, but maybe the battery management system was conflicting with the Mosfet regulator???

Anyway, and so far, the bike is operating fine with a standard AGM battery and my original voltage regulator. No over-voltage errors captured by any of the bike's systems (confirmed by multiple code pulls with GS-911).

Bottom line...looks like the Deltran BMS was the root cause of my issues.

I do NOT know if I've got a bad/deffective lithium battery or if the battery just isn't compatible. I've got an email with Deltran to see what they say.

Hope this helps someone in the future.

Thanks to others on the site including Benny for helping with my situation.
 

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Nice informative post. The reg should in reality keep the voltage where it needs to be. But that over voltage is very concerning. Did the back of the reg seem hot or any signs of extreme heat? I have seen a battery on a Ducati 848 swell to the point it was bulging and the acid was being boiled. We left the bike outside to cool down and let the battery cool down. If we removed the leads and something sparked. Boom. That was a failed reg with a normal battery though. I would of thought the Lithium battery would regulate itself. If it detects incorrect voltage it will open the contacts and you will have 0 volts across the terminals. Not sure how that one works. Maybe it was requesting more power than what it needed.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
With respect to heat, I did have concerns over heat. When working on the bike after a long ride (and the over voltage problem), the frame in that general area was very hot. Too hot to the touch. I know the frame does get hot...but it seemed more so that "usual".

That said, I saw no visual evidence of overheating on the voltage regulator itself, the battery, the battery box, or the wiring. So, maybe my observation on the frame was just normal.

Another observation on the situation, the over-voltage issue would not crop up during a short ride or when starting up cold. It would crop up during a longer ride. My thinking here...the over-voltage would crop up after the battery was fully charged and the battery monitoring circuit was "asking for nothing". Another thought...at full charge, a lithium battery has a higher voltage versus AGM say around 13.4V; versus say 12.7 for the AGM/lead acid.

So, how does the regulator work when the voltage of the battery is 13.4V, but the load is zero? Is that causing bias issues with the mosfet design such that it has trouble shunting excess energy to ground? And does that bias issue result in poor regulation (or rectification)? Or...is the battery monitoring circuit malfunctioning at full charge?

Thinking about a potential test scenario...I could put the Deltran back in the bike and try to get the over voltage situation again. Once I'm witnessing it. I could increase the load on the voltage regulator by jumping a lead acid battery in parallel with the lithium. Not sure if I care enough about debugging the lithium battery or should I just be happy I'm up and riding. :)
 

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This is crazy.....and exasperating.

I just spent 2 hours reviewing lithium batteries for the RR.....SpeedCell, WPS, Shorai, BikeMaster, Deltran Battery Tender, etc.

Differing opinions on sizes, fitment, and power......

Finally decided on the Battery Tender Lithium BTL09A150CW since it is reported no fitment issues and it’s only $108 online.....although was slightly worried about the CCA and 2.5AH rating?

Now I read this thread about electrical gremlins....possibly related to the Deltran lithium battery.....aarrgghh :eek:


.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Update on the Deltran Battery...

I filed a warrantee claim with the good folks at Deltran. Whole process was easy and pleasant.

Results of the warrantee claim are that they can not find any issue with the battery itself. The battery performs as expected. Final resolution of my claim was noted as a "compatibility issue". Deltran rep said that the new BMS system in the batteries can have issues with some bikes. End result...I am getting a refund of full purchase price from Deltran (not the vendor).

So, Deltran seems to confirm my findings...battery doesn't work with my bike. I don't know if this is a compatibility issue across all S1000RR model years...I've seen other posts which claim good performance.

While I'm disappointed that the Deltran didn't work out for my ride, I am very satisfied with Deltran as a company. Stand up place and I'll continue to provide them business :)
 

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I have recently bought and installed and antigravity with the restart function and I am having the same issue. Rechecked the connections and will try it again but don’t really expect a different result
 

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Starting a separate thread to document my experience with some charging system issues and Deltran BMS Lithium battery.

My situation: my 2015 S1000RR needed a new battery about two months ago and went with a Deltran "Smart" Lithium battery. This battery has a built in managment system and seems (or seemed) to be a great way to go. Between the time I replaced the battery and the more recent issues, I was traveling a fair bit and didn't really ride much except for a bit of commuting.

Recently: I started getting ABS errors and a whacked out instrument guage. All of this was root caused to over-voltage conditions. This was verified with error codes pulled via GS-911. And verified by direct measurements with DVM. Voltage would vary to over 17-18 volts. Variation coincided with RPM. Variation sort of seemed like bad rectification, like catching only a half-wave of the AC...probably not the reality.

First suspect in all of this was the voltage rectifier/regulator. Here are some things I've learned about the voltage regulator:
- the voltage regulator across all years is sourced from Shindengen.
- it is a Mosfet shunt type design (not straight-up diode)
- testing of a Mosfet design is similar to testing of standard diode-only designs, except the voltage drop across one side is only 0.1v versus 0.4'ish.
- a good video to test the regulator is here:
- the voltage regulator across all model year bikes is said to be the same part number, but it is NOT the same part.
- sometime around 2014 there was a change to the voltage regulator from a FH012 to FH020 type; there's also a wiring/fusing change.
- the data for the part type change is here: https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/v/EMESERVER/Euro MotoElectrics/12_001_15_005_Alternator_regulator.pdf
- to remove the regulator, the easiest way I found was to suspend the back half of the bike from the ceiling, and then disconnect the shock at the top AND bottom mounts, you can then access the voltage regulator pretty easily, but you don't have to completely remove the shock.


Back to my situation...I did my initial testing of the voltage regulator and suspected an issue when I measured the 0.1v drop. I did a swap with a replacement OEM regulator. Things seemed OK for a while...short rides to work. But, then on a long ride, the bike wigged out again. That's when I learned about the correct testing approach and figured out my original regulator was ok.

I did the standard tests on the stator. Don't have the web links handy, but this is the resistance testing and testing open circuit to ground across all three phases. Everything thing looked good. And given that I had over-voltage issue, I didn't suspect a burned out stator.

My next effort was to swap back to a standard AGM battery. I found a few comments elsewhere that mentioned a lithium battery (when fully charged) might not provide sufficient load for the BMW charging system to function properly. Hmm...not sure I see the mechanism for that, but maybe the battery management system was conflicting with the Mosfet regulator???

Anyway, and so far, the bike is operating fine with a standard AGM battery and my original voltage regulator. No over-voltage errors captured by any of the bike's systems (confirmed by multiple code pulls with GS-911).

Bottom line...looks like the Deltran BMS was the root cause of my issues.

I do NOT know if I've got a bad/deffective lithium battery or if the battery just isn't compatible. I've got an email with Deltran to see what they say.

Hope this helps someone in the future.

Thanks to others on the site including Benny for helping with my situation.
I would like to thank you a ton this has been bothering me a lot
 

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Just bought an antigravity for bike with the same restart function .... should i swap it out for agm or at least a lithium with out a BMS function, Thoughts??
 
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