[Ravenbravo]

And I said the same thing. But putting the stock tune back into the DME is not a guarantee you're good. As has been indicated BMW can tell you've had a tune put into the DME at some point. This has been born out by various threads over on Bimmerpost with the auto side of things. Do you think they wouldn't have that capability on the Motorrad side?

Im not saying they wont know, if they dig into it yes. Im just telling you what my dealer says to do as they are mod friendly. But they dont have to dig to see an Exhaust, which could be an instant denial for warranty too.
Personally, I wouldnt own this bike if there wasnt a tune for that horrific flat spot. 50 HP is HUGE, not to mention that terrible cold start crap!

 

[zx10guy]

Im not saying they wont know, if they dig into it yes. Im just telling you what my dealer says to do as they are mod friendly. But they dont have to dig to see an Exhaust, which could be an instant denial for warranty too.
Personally, I wouldnt own this bike if there wasnt a tune for that horrific flat spot. 50 HP is HUGE

And if BMW has mandated the same thing with the Motorrad division as they have with the auto group, it's SOP to have the DME connected to ISTA for the data to be phoned back to the mothership. If they're not doing it now, I'd bet money they will very soon.

With an exhaust, the change is so minor compared to what a tune does. So BMW would be paying a lot more attention to whether a tune has been installed on the bike at any time.

My dealer has been mod friendly too. They haven't harassed me about the obvious exhaust, rearsets, etc.

As to the HP dip, it depends on your riding. My style of riding on the street is more about carving corners than brute force acceleration. I save that for the track as I rather not be thrown in jail. I got this bike so I can be used to how it handles and operates as I use pretty much the exact same bike with CSS minus the TO tune. I think there's something to it as I was able to shave .3 seconds off my fastest lap time ever this year. And this was with the crap weather I had that limited the amount of time I had on my bike prior to going to the track.

 

[omasou]

And if BMW has mandated the same thing with the Motorrad division as they have with the auto group, it's SOP to have the DME connected to ISTA for the data to be phoned back to the mothership. If they're not doing it now, I'd bet money they will very soon.

With an exhaust, the change is so minor compared to what a tune does. So BMW would be paying a lot more attention to whether a tune has been installed on the bike at any time.

My dealer has been mod friendly too. They haven't harassed me about the obvious exhaust, rearsets, etc.

As to the HP dip, it depends on your riding. My style of riding on the street is more about carving corners than brute force acceleration. I save that for the track as I rather not be thrown in jail. I got this bike so I can be used to how it handles and operates as I use pretty much the exact same bike with CSS minus the TO tune. I think there's something to it as I was able to shave .3 seconds off my fastest lap time ever this year. And this was with the crap weather I had that limited the amount of time I had on my bike prior to going to the track.

LOL, Easy to see you're a BMW owner. I get that folks like to say my car/bike HP is X and my 0-60 is Y but the reason I buy BMWs cars and bikes are the handling and to carve corners not straight line acceleration. If straight line acceleration was my thing (not that there is anything wrong w/it I would own a 5L Mustang or supercharged car. As zx10guy mentioned w/in the past months or so we have seen a significant number of posts from folks saying that BMW voided their warranty the minute the ISTA was attached to the ODB II port. It is especially, sad when the poster is a second owner who brings their car in for service only to be told their warranty is voided.

To the exhaust comments, almost everyone plays w/the exhaust and any manufacture would have a hard time voiding a warranty over it. The biggest issues for cars is playing w/the emission, yet folks still add catless downpipes or remove the OPFs.

A tune is completely different. Depending on who provided the tune and how far they pushed the envelope it could certainly be related to a failure. I don't care one way or another if someone wants to "tune" their engine but what I find less than truthful and a disservice to someone who may not know...is saying "I flashed" my vehicle back to stock and the dealer "can't see it" or "they have to dig to see it". One the dealer has nothing to do w/warranty other than provide information to the manufacture and depending on the severity of the claim BMW will see it or find it. Even if there was ZERO ability to see a past coding change it is very easy to see the logs and know that values are higher or lower than they should be. I also think folks are forgetting that cars (not sure about bikes) have a black box that is essentially a FIFO cache housing a ton of information that can be used to prove a point, especially by law enforcement if a serious accident were to occur.

Lastly, yes the 40-50 HP loss is a huge disappointment and BMW should find a better way. That said in those gears at those RPMs we are on the TRQ cam and probably why BMW came up w/the TO "fix". Not sure I understand why the drop in top end HP as by that time the other cam is being used. Maybe that just answered my own question.

 

[zx10guy]

LOL, Easy to see you're a BMW owner. I get that folks like to say my car/bike HP is X and my 0-60 is Y but the reason I buy BMWs cars and bikes are the handling and to carve corners not straight line acceleration. If straight line acceleration was my thing (not that there is anything wrong w/it I would own a 5L Mustang or supercharged car. As zx10guy mentioned w/in the past months or so we have seen a significant number of posts from folks saying that BMW voided their warranty the minute the ISTA was attached to the ODB II port. It is especially, sad when the poster is a second owner who brings their car in for service only to be told their warranty is voided.

To the exhaust comments, almost everyone plays w/the exhaust and any manufacture would have a hard time voiding a warranty over it. The biggest issues for cars is playing w/the emission, yet folks still add catless downpipes or remove the OPFs.

A tune is completely different. Depending on who provided the tune and how far they pushed the envelope it could certainly be related to a failure. I don't care one way or another if someone wants to "tune" their engine but what I find less than truthful and a disservice to someone who may not know...is saying "I flashed" my vehicle back to stock and the dealer "can't see it" or "they have to dig to see it". One the dealer has nothing to do w/warranty other than provide information to the manufacture and depending on the severity of the claim BMW will see it or find it. Even if there was ZERO ability to see a past coding change it is very easy to see the logs and know that values are higher or lower than they should be. I also think folks are forgetting that cars (not sure about bikes) have a black box that is essentially a FIFO cache housing a ton of information that can be used to prove a point, especially by law enforcement if a serious accident were to occur.

Lastly, yes the 40-50 HP loss is a huge disappointment and BMW should find a better way. That said in those gears at those RPMs we are on the TRQ cam and probably why BMW came up w/the TO "fix". Not sure I understand why the drop in top end HP as by that time the other cam is being used. Maybe that just answered my own question.

Frankly, I was fine with my 135i stock. The only reason I went down the path of having two different tunes (BMW PPK and Dinan S2) installed in the car was due to the lurching/hesitation issues I was having with the DCT. You can see my journey on Bimmerpost trying to figure out what the ultimate fix would be which turned out to be getting the trans adaptations reset. As I said, I felt comfortable going with a Dinan S2 tune because of their reputation and spelled out warranty. It also helped that Dinan had a relationship with BMW similar to SLP and GM. The dealer I purchased my car from is/was actually a Dinan dealer.

None of that is the case here with our bikes.

 

[Pipes1021]

Not mine but someone with a before and after flash in 2nd gear same mods. You can see a good difference in torque up till about 10.5k. Imo the added torque is important for all types of riding definitely road riding. And of course the hp where it’s lacking is a big plus along with no top end power loss. A flash is worth it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[omasou]

No one is disqualifying the improvement. Only the downplaying or lack of full disclosure that on a new bike the warranty “may” be sacrificed when need most.

 

[nate.evans]

And if BMW has mandated the same thing with the Motorrad division as they have with the auto group, it's SOP to have the DME connected to ISTA for the data to be phoned back to the mothership. If they're not doing it now, I'd bet money they will very soon.

With an exhaust, the change is so minor compared to what a tune does. So BMW would be paying a lot more attention to whether a tune has been installed on the bike at any time.

My dealer has been mod friendly too. They haven't harassed me about the obvious exhaust, rearsets, etc.

As to the HP dip, it depends on your riding. My style of riding on the street is more about carving corners than brute force acceleration. I save that for the track as I rather not be thrown in jail. I got this bike so I can be used to how it handles and operates as I use pretty much the exact same bike with CSS minus the TO tune. I think there's something to it as I was able to shave .3 seconds off my fastest lap time ever this year. And this was with the crap weather I had that limited the amount of time I had on my bike prior to going to the track.

You're correct on the SOP to have the DME sent back to the mothership. The motorcycle division is mandated the same way as the auto division. It's a good bit of the reason why the dealer can't just remove the 9K redline off a brand new bike until the 600 mile point cause if anything WERE to happen to the bike, the DME report will show the limiter was removed well before the 600 mile break in point. Then the dealer is held liable...

I had these questions on my previous bike (an R9T) which I had done EXTENSIVE mods to while still under warranty and just like sated above, BMW doesn't care about mods unless it was something directly related to the failure. Yeah, they could REALLY dig into the data to see you had a flash, unflash, flash, and unflash then warranty reported, but it takes up a LOT of resources to prove to a mostly uneducated automotive-knowledge jury that you were beyond a shadow of a doubt in the wrong, so they just keep on moving unless it's extremely obvious...

What I want to know is how much range the wide-band sensors have and how quickly they adapt on these bikes. Before I put wideband sensors on my R9T it still remained stoich even after running essentially straight headers and the tuner (a pretty well known one in the BMW community) was shocked that the stock ECU had enough lateral flexibility to accomodate the mods I had. After putting on the RapidBikeEvo and MyTuningBike wideband sensors, it kept it slightly rich, but otherwise gave the same results as far as the AFR was concerned, large bump in power, but as far as the AFR was concerned, it reacted/performed the same but just kept it slightly richer.

 

[omasou]

<snip...>

What I want to know is how much range the wide-band sensors have and how quickly they adapt on these bikes. Before I put wideband sensors on my R9T it still remained stoich even after running essentially straight headers and the tuner (a pretty well known one in the BMW community) was shocked that the stock ECU had enough lateral flexibility to accomodate the mods I had. After putting on the RapidBikeEvo and MyTuningBike wideband sensors, it kept it slightly rich, but otherwise gave the same results as far as the AFR was concerned, large bump in power, but as far as the AFR was concerned, it reacted/performed the same but just kept it slightly richer.

When you installed the headers did you block off the PAIR/SAS ports? If not doesn't the vehicle run a tad rich?