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Interesting. I've never had a fling problem with MOTUL.
I'll see speeds over 100 mph, so maybe that's it. Also, if it's a lighter oil like WD-40, it might not form globs, but then a thinner lube doesn't protect like a thicker one does. For all it's faults, PJ1 Blue Label seems to really extend chain life, being a thicker, stickier lube. I tried some other stuff once, more of one of those chain waxes, and my chain dried out really fast in the middle of a multi-day ride in the middle of the AZ desert. Thank God I brought a can of lube with me.

I'd REALLY like to see a comprehensive lube test, where they ran the chains for 20k miles and measured wear on the chain and sprockets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I wash the RR every week or two and use the occasion to clean and lube the chain using kerosene and gear oil (per a set of Fortnine videos). Despite all safety advisories, I clean and lube with the bike on a stand, engine running, and wheel spinning holding a chain brush. It takes less than a minute.

With the M Endurance Chain, if lube isn't necessary for the chain/sprocket connection, I guess I can dispense with all of this. But I'll let my original chain wear out before replacing it.
 

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Despite all safety advisories, I clean and lube with the bike on a stand, engine running, and wheel spinning holding a chain brush. It takes less than a minute.
Yikes! My buddy lost the end of his thumb in less than a minute doing that. And he's a degreed Aerospace Engineer who SHOULD know better! He was lucky not to lose the whole thing...or his hand. I usually just put it on the rear Pit Bull stand, and roll it by hand, takes about a minute...and is much safer.

I used kerosene once, and once only back in the mid-'80's, and it destroyed my chain in short order. Since then I've simply used the lube (PJ1 blue Label) to spray clean the chain, and when I wipe off the excess and it dries, it's lubed. The solvents/propellents in the can work great to wash the chain, and I know they're not harmful to the X-rings. You use a bunch, but it's faster and easier than using 2 different chemicals, especially one that, in my experience at least, destroyed my chain.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Yikes! My buddy lost the end of his thumb in less than a minute doing that. And he's a degreed Aerospace Engineer who SHOULD know better! He was lucky not to lose the whole thing...or his hand. I usually just put it on the rear Pit Bull stand, and roll it by hand, takes about a minute...and is much safer.

I used kerosene once, and once only back in the mid-'80's, and it destroyed my chain in short order. Since then I've simply used the lube (PJ1 blue Label) to spray clean the chain, and when I wipe off the excess and it dries, it's lubed. The solvents/propellents in the can work great to wash the chain, and I know they're not harmful to the X-rings. You use a bunch, but it's faster and easier than using 2 different chemicals, especially one that, in my experience at least, destroyed my chain.
I carefully angle the brush handle away from the direction of travel so if there is an unexpected snag, it just comes out of my hand. The method is safe and cleans/lubes the chain both faster and better than rotating the wheel by hand.

As for kerosene and gear oil, here is the relevant Fortnine research.


 

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I carefully angle the brush handle away from the direction of travel so if there is an unexpected snag, it just comes out of my hand. The method is safe and cleans/lubes the chain both faster and better than rotating the wheel by hand.

As for kerosene and gear oil, here is the relevant Fortnine research.


I was going to post the same videos

I don't recommend your method of cleaning, but hey that's your choice and you didn't ask our opinion :)
 

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I carefully angle the brush handle away from the direction of travel so if there is an unexpected snag, it just comes out of my hand. The method is safe and cleans/lubes the chain both faster and better than rotating the wheel by hand.

As for kerosene and gear oil, here is the relevant Fortnine research.
Well, let me say that I pray to God you never have an issue! Phil lost the tip of his thumb, and another friend years ago was working on a farm tractor, saw one of the belts was loose, and got his hand too close and it pulled his hand and arm around the pulley and broke all the proximal phalanges in his hand. Luckily his hand was able to go around the pulley without pulling him into the engine bay and ripping his hand or arm off, and also lucky the belt was so loose it didn't just amputate his fingers like the end of Phil's thumb. Chains have zero stretch, whatever get's caught, gets cut off. In other words, don't be this guy: http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/19242/80782032.jpg

I like Fortnine, he's kinda a dweeb, but funny. Dunno why I had the bad experience with kerosene, but I swore off using it ever again. I find spraying extra chain lube does exactly the same thing faster with only one chemical. Might be a bit more expensive than kerosene, but I'm ok with that as it saves me time.
 

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Hmmm, FortNine's video shows kerosene penetrate the o-ring seal almost immediately. This would back up the complete destruction of my o-rings I saw in the chain I used kerosene on. From what I saw, the kerosene took all the lube out behind the o-rings, dried them out, and the chain was done in short order.

Comments on testing methods:
Also, spraying anything on a rubber balloon only shows....how something affects that material. There are a ZILLION different o-ring materials, and some will fail using standard lubricants yet stand up to very caustic environments, and vice versa. So, that's not a very good test. Also, the "penetration" test, he needed to make sure the materials had the same surface finish as the chain link material, and the same "squeeze" that a staked chain would have. I mean, he tried to be consistent at least.
 

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If it's about $350 I might just buy regular chains, not maintain them at all, and replace them when they start to kink!
 

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Kerosene...bad stuff. Nasty. Cleaning chain with engine running...yikes.

Motul for me...worked for the past 7 years. It's those damn chain "brushes" that wreck O-rings. Don't use them any more.
 

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Kerosene...bad stuff. Nasty. Cleaning chain with engine running...yikes.

Motul for me...worked for the past 7 years. It's those damn chain "brushes" that wreck O-rings. Don't use them any more.
Yeah, I've never used a brush, I always thought they'd damage a chain. I just spray it with lube to wash out what grime I can and call it good. I got 22k miles on my OEM chain and sprockets, and the sprockets look great still, so, I have to be doing something right...
 

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Yeah, I've never used a brush, I always thought they'd damage a chain. I just spray it with lube to wash out what grime I can and call it good. I got 22k miles on my OEM chain and sprockets, and the sprockets look great still, so, I have to be doing something right...
Sounds like you are doing something right. I replaced my chain and sprockets at 12,000 miles. The sprockets were fine, and the only reason I replaced the chain was that a few o-rings were damaged/missing. The o-ring issue was not at all obvious...I only noticed it because one was broken and protruding above the side of the chain. Checking o-rings is tedious, but probably ought to be done occasionally.

As for cleaning, I've gone to using a LOT of Motul Chain Clean on a section of chain, followed immediately by light brushing with a very soft toothbrush. No chance of o-ring damage (unlike with a Grunge Brush), and the heavy concentration of cleaner just flushes the dirt and old lube off the chain. I then wipe the section with a clean, dry microfiber towel and move on to the next section. I do about 10" at a time, with cardboard behind the chain to block overspray. Once the whole chain is cleaned, I go over it with another microfiber towel onto which I've sprayed some chain cleaner, just as a final finishing wipe. Wipe dry, let it sit and evaporate all the cleaner on the chain for 15 minutes or more, then spray on Motul Chain Lube. Spin the rear tire while wiping any excess off the side plates, then spin the tire a bunch of times to work the lube into the chain well. Result: beautiful chain, nice lube, no fling (don't ride for several hours to be sure it's all dry).

Reading the above makes me sound pretty OCD...oh, well...it works for me...:whistle:
 

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Sounds like you are doing something right. I replaced my chain and sprockets at 12,000 miles. The sprockets were fine, and the only reason I replaced the chain was that a few o-rings were damaged/missing. The o-ring issue was not at all obvious...I only noticed it because one was broken and protruding above the side of the chain. Checking o-rings is tedious, but probably ought to be done occasionally.

As for cleaning, I've gone to using a LOT of Motul Chain Clean on a section of chain, followed immediately by light brushing with a very soft toothbrush. No chance of o-ring damage (unlike with a Grunge Brush), and the heavy concentration of cleaner just flushes the dirt and old lube off the chain. I then wipe the section with a clean, dry microfiber towel and move on to the next section. I do about 10" at a time, with cardboard behind the chain to block overspray. Once the whole chain is cleaned, I go over it with another microfiber towel onto which I've sprayed some chain cleaner, just as a final finishing wipe. Wipe dry, let it sit and evaporate all the cleaner on the chain for 15 minutes or more, then spray on Motul Chain Lube. Spin the rear tire while wiping any excess off the side plates, then spin the tire a bunch of times to work the lube into the chain well. Result: beautiful chain, nice lube, no fling (don't ride for several hours to be sure it's all dry).

Reading the above makes me sound pretty OCD...oh, well...it works for me...:whistle:
Dood, I'm probably just as OCD. LOL Yeah, that's the way I've spotted broken o-rings before too, your chain starts to look "hairy" and you're like, WTF??? But, me, what I do is put the bike up on the rear stand, in neutral, put a piece of cardboard between the chain and bottom part of the fairing there behind the kickstand (to keep from spraying the bike), carefully position the straw for the lube with my left hand to within maybe 1/2" of the chain, and then spin the rear tire with my right so I make sure I get all the length of the chain as it whizzes by a couple full rotations. I start right at the inner x-rings, shooting right at them. Then I reposition the straw and do the same couple revolutions on the bearing surfaces of the rollers, then I do the outer x-rings. Then I spray a rag with the lube, then spin the back tire to wipe off the excess. I usually wait at least a day if possible before I ride again.
 

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Geez...first I heard of brushes hurting o rings, and I just purchased a grung brush!
 

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back on topic though, im very interested to see some long term testing of this chain.... obviously it depends on the price, and how long you keep your bike, if it makes it a worthwhile investment.... at first they might be quite expensive and defeat any benefit, but if the technology gets adopted by more companies it might end up becoming an affordable norm later on.

if you only keep a bike for 2-3 years before changing to a new one, then its probably not worth it to pay 3x more for a chain.
 
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