[paxman]

Hi There!

Now I have never seen an issue like this. Here is the story:
Brand new 2022 S1000 RR. I got the Alpha duo sintered pads and was bedding them in on a mountain road.
200 miles later they were making squeaking sounds like a race car. So I was like ok let me check them.
Both rotors are extremely badly worn after 200 miles. They have deep grooves in them.

Now am I the dumb one and should have expected that lower temps race pads do this to OEM rotors ?
Or is this a weird problem that should not occur .

Link to the pads : Bremsbelagsatz Duo Sinter, vorne [3411B901A00] : alpha Racing - Performance Parts & Merchandise, Onlineshop

Thanks for any advice.

 

[paxman]

I've used the alpha pads on my bike just fine. There were great in fact. Currently using EBC GPFAX pads which I like a lot and they are cheap like the budgie.

Have you also used them on the street or only track ? Wonder if the low temp caused this ?

 

[paxman]

Hi there and thanks for the replies. Nope had no debris in them. Checked them together with a BMW tech and measured the rotors. 50% of the usable thickness is already destroyed after 200 miles with them. Only theory I can come up with is that at low street temps these are so darn abrasive that the stock rotor was just too soft to deal with it.

Maybe a pad manufacturing issue. Am in contact with Alpha ...

 

[paxman]

Got my bike back and investigated the brakes. After a test ride rotors were not hot, put the bike on a paddock stand and front tire was able to move freely. no dragging brakes.
But here is the damage - I see some wear on the clips that hold the pads in place and wonder if the pads didn't move as freely as they should. Going through half a rotor in 200 miles must mean that the pads got stuck at some stake imho. Else there would be never enough friction do to so much damage ??
Thoughts?

 

[paxman]

Do those caliper pistons look normal? Look rough that might not have let them retract previously.

lots of break dust on them but they move freely. Also no problems when I had the previous pads installed.
My best theory right now is that the Alpha pads were rubbing a bit at the backing plate vs the caliper .

Also talked to Alpha Racing but they were essentially doing a 🤷‍♂️ and didn't care any further. Was hoping that they'd at least give me some discount for new rotors or actually care to find out what happened but does not seem to be the case.

 

[paxman]

What was the condition of the rotors such as surface rust, pitting, grooves etc... prior to installing the Alpha pads? Did you experience any other issues / any squealing or other noise at any stage with the Alpha pads? Did you get the brake pads wet like you ride in the rain. Did you bleed your brakes & maybe some brake fluid or any other contaminants on the rotors or the pads. Did you use any wheel cleaner / car wash etc...etc... recently?

Awesome Checklist :
Rotors had only 400 miles on them (brand new bike)
Then I changed to Alpha pads.
Noticed squealing sounds
Now after just about 200 miles with alpha pads I have deep grooves and wore off more than 50% of the rotors usable thickness from 5mm down to 4.7mm
No brake fluid or contaminants were anywhere.
Didn't ride in the rain and didn't wash the bike.

 

[paxman]

First Paragraph from Z00, and full quote from Drloannis.
I have seen this occur on multiple types of bikes. When you change pads even new to new you have to make sure that there is the proper amount of fluid in the reservoir. If you have too much, you can hydraulically lock the system and have pressure on your pads even without actuating the lever.
My .02.

To the brake fluid theory - No brake fluid did leak. My bleeding was done with hoses and calipers were always dry on inspection.
The idea that if it was not properly filled / bleed and it caused some pressure makes sense to me. To have this kind of damage in such a short time it must have been dragging . Else it would not build up this kind of heat. Question is just why did it drag hmmmmmm

 

[paxman]

Couple more photos. The grooves on the alpha rotors are from the factory pads not sure if I said that in my original post.. Also the last 2 pics are the factory rotors factory pads

Oh wow yes similar setup . So you had the bad wear with OEM Pads on the new Rotors. Wonder if there is something to the theory of too much brake fluid. did you change the fluid at all for the difference in wear?

Also noticed that the stock pads are rounder on the corners which should make them move smoother on the retainer clips imho.

Maybe these calipers are sensitive to the liquid pressure and might have caused bad wear. did anything change after you swapped pads ?

 

[paxman]

Couple more photos. The grooves on the alpha rotors are from the factory pads not sure if I said that in my original post.. Also the last 2 pics are the factory rotors factory pads

The best theory is so far the brake fluid. If you didn't touch the fluid and put in the alpha rotors (which are 5.5mm vs stock 5mm) maybe due to the thickness and no reduction in fluid they started dragging.

 

[paxman]

Defective pads! ? that looks like way to much metallic material to me!

Could be. Also it's weird that some parts of the pads broke off. I never have seen that before.

 

[paxman]

Update : another Forum user ran the Alpha Pads on the streets and chewed up one of his 2 rotors. So seems to be that you can't run these on the streets. I switched back to OEM Pads and Alpha rotors and everything works fine again. Actually better than fine I feel like the Alpha rotors slightly improved the brake feel.

 

[paxman]

Can you please rephrase this part?
"Alpha pads were rubbing a bit at the backing plate vs the caliper"

Sure so the retaining clips of the caliper had some obvious wear and tear. So one theory way that the pads simply didn't slide freely back and forth and thus get stuck on the rotor.
But now that I found another rider that also destroyed a rotor with those pads it seems to me that maybe the aggressive metal content in the pads just chews rotors apart at low temps (street riding)

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[paxman]

@#Redhotrc51 do you have some updated photos from your Alpha Pad experience ?

 

[paxman]

Who installed them? Maybe the parts were on the shelf too long or stored in a climate with extreme temperature changes, like Reno, NV, which has extreme heat and extreme cool seasons (why I don't buy tires from tirerack btw).

New pads, no matter what application they're designed for, on a new bike... I just can't help but think something wrong happened during install.

That is the typical first assumption everyone would jump to, as it's the most common reason. If you'd read the entire thread : I documented my installation and clean up on youtube videos in great detail, but also got my installation reviewed by BMW mechanics at a dealership. To have multiple cases seems like the pads (maybe a single batch) were bad. I never heard that weather could affect sintered brake pads, as they are mostly metal really.

Video of cleaning up the aftermath . To repeat from previous posts: I got new rotors (old ones were worn down from 5mm to 4.7mm ) and went back to OEM pads. Did another 200 miles with OEM pads and Alpha rotors and have no issues anymore. Only thing that changed was the pads.

 

[paxman]

UPDATE

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but so far:

1 Both @paxman & @#Redhotrc51 had identical issues with Alpha racing pads.
2. Both were running OEM rotors / pads or sintered pads.
3. Both dropped in the same Alpha brake pads
4.Both experienced same type of pad damage

Only variables are #Redhotrc51 removed the Alphas earlier with less pad damage & proportionally less rotor damage. Paxman rotors were shot due to excessive wear.

Correct - I shared that with alpha racing a week ago. No response .

 

[paxman]

I apologize, I did skim-read / speed-read parts of this thread. But as you mentioned, and as a former service technician and someone with a mechanical background, this is an extremely common cause. I'll see my way out now

Hehe all good ;-)