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I don’t know if it is just in my head or if there is something else with bike setup which prevents me from going full throttle. I am better than last year, closer to 80% max versus 65% last year. Each time I open the throttle I reach a point where it feels like the bike is fully accelerating and is going to wheelie if the throttle is opened any further. I am weighting the foot pegs and squeezing with my legs to hold on, is it acceptable to also have to hold on tightly to the bars under full throttle? Even with poor driving line I should be able to go to full throttle but I haven’t been able to go to full throttle in slick mode, only rain mode....
On a straight you should not be doing any "weighting the foot pegs and squeezing with my legs to hold on, is it acceptable to also have to hold on tightly to the bars".
If you have to, you are disturbing the bike.
And the reason that you have to do that is most probably wrong body position (and/or bad seat support). Your chest and chin is not on top of the tank vs your head and shoulders are sticking up from wind screen top level, you are not behind the wind screen. So your CoG is on higher level and also drag force vector is on higher level, and that make the bike (power)wheelie more easy.
If you physically can not fit yourself behind the wind screen (your helmet is poking to it), use masking tape, mask the top end of the screen, use jig saw with metal blade (fine toothed), and shorten the screen (and fairing).

I'm tall, but shorter than you, and I'm barely fitting myself behind the screen: https://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/track-time/231057-let-s-see-those-track-bikes-20.html#post2289442
 

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On a straight you should not be doing any "weighting the foot pegs and squeezing with my legs to hold on, is it acceptable to also have to hold on tightly to the bars".
If you have to, you are disturbing the bike.
And the reason that you have to do that is most probably wrong body position (and/or bad seat support). Your chest and chin is not on top of the tank vs your head and shoulders are sticking up from wind screen top level, you are not behind the wind screen. So your CoG is on higher level and also drag force vector is on higher level, and that make the bike (power)wheelie more easy.
If you physically can not fit yourself behind the wind screen (your helmet is poking to it), use masking tape, mask the top end of the screen, use jig saw with metal blade (fine toothed), and shorten the screen (and fairing).

I'm tall, but shorter than you, and I'm barely fitting myself behind the screen: https://www.s1000rrforum.com/forum/track-time/231057-let-s-see-those-track-bikes-20.html#post2289442
I think you are right, I need to modify the screen and maybe change something on the seat so I can lay on the tank and not slip back under acceleration. Could my body position really be causing a problem for me to not be able to go full throttle? I hope so... I will upload some body position video and ask for some feedback.

Many thanks @speedfinn :smile2:
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Could my body position really be causing a problem for me to not be able to go full throttle?
Absolutely. I had issues getting full throttle exiting the carousel and turn 6 at T-Hill. A quick turn throttle helped. :smile2:
 

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I think you are right, I need to modify the screen and maybe change something on the seat so I can lay on the tank and not slip back under acceleration. Could my body position really be causing a problem for me to not be able to go full throttle? I hope so... I will upload some body position video and ask for some feedback.

Many thanks @speedfinn :smile2:
Some other things to consider:
Rear preload -> sag value?
Rear height vs stock?
Shock length vs stock?
Chain length/ rear axle location vs stock?
Gearing -> anti-squat/ chain force vs stock?
When sear shock was changed, was the swingarm hanging down when bolts were tightened?
 

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Some other things to consider:
Rear preload -> sag value?
Rear height vs stock?
Shock length vs stock?
Chain length/ rear axle location vs stock?
Gearing -> anti-squat/ chain force vs stock?
When sear shock was changed, was the swingarm hanging down when bolts were tightened?
Rear preload was 13mm installed, reduced to get to 28mm total sag in rear.

Rear height - top eccentric was flipped to lower rear

Shock length - 353mm eye to eye

Chain length - swingarm measures 600mm from swingarm pivot to rear axle

Gearing - 15/45

I lifted chassis with straps on foot pegs, removed rear wheel and exhaust hanger bolts, and removed swingarm to linkage 100nm bolt. This allowed me to drop swingarm enough to remove and reinstall shock. I did not torque shock bolts until Swingarm to linkage bolt was torqued.
 

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Do you really need to ask...?

I had never thought about it, am I supposed to just lay on the tank all the time???

I lean forward on the straights but it looks like I am not leaned over as much as I thought...

 

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I had never thought about it, am I supposed to just lay on the tank all the time???

I lean forward on the straights but it looks like I am not leaned over as much as I thought...
Between apex and brakemark roughly yes.

"I blah blah blah but it looks like I am not blah blah blah as much as I thought..."
That's how normal human mind works -> absolutely full off bullshit.
Vs show me data or video or gtfo.
 

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Between apex and brakemark roughly yes.

"I blah blah blah but it looks like I am not blah blah blah as much as I thought..."
That's how normal human mind works -> absolutely full off bullshit.
Vs show me data or video or gtfo.
This will be a change to my riding, impatient to recalibrate my brain with my body position >:)

I will get video of my helmet and upper body next time.

Keep calling out the bullshit, it helps and is appreciated:) I enjoy directness and cutting to the point.

If I start going wfo as soon as I start laying on the tank I’m going to piss my pants laughing lol
 

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This will be a change to my riding, impatient to recalibrate my brain with my body position >:)

I will get video of my helmet and upper body next time.

Keep calling out the bullshit, it helps and is appreciated:) I enjoy directness and cutting to the point.

If I start going wfo as soon as I start laying on the tank I’m going to piss my pants laughing lol
Totally wrong idea in that sense that you can not fix things with throttle.
You could be using even less throttle (80% -> 60-70%), and drop your lap time 10 seconds simply by having a very good driving line.

Most important sector is between turn in and apex, because that dictates what you can or cant do between apex and brakemark.
So first things first. Track usage at turn in. And driving line between turn in and apex.

What you do between turn in and apex = your lap time.
What you do between apex and brakemark does not matter until you fix the previous sector.

Try to get rid of that most common delusion: Throttle = speed = good lap time.
Good lap times are made when you are trail braking and having a good driving line while doing it.
 

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Totally wrong idea in that sense that you can not fix things with throttle.
You could be using even less throttle (80% -> 60-70%), and drop your lap time 10 seconds simply by having a very good driving line.

Most important sector is between turn in and apex, because that dictates what you can or cant do between apex and brakemark.
So first things first. Track usage at turn in. And driving line between turn in and apex.

What you do between turn in and apex = your lap time.
What you do between apex and brakemark does not matter until you fix the previous sector.

Try to get rid of that most common delusion: Throttle = speed = good lap time.
Good lap times are made when you are trail braking and having a good driving line while doing it.
What does it feel like or look like when I have a good driving line?

I understand theory of maximizing straights and minimizing turns, using markers and late apex. However, as soon as the visor goes down I forget / don’t have a way to evaluate myself until I’m back in the pits looking at data.

There is too much time between acting and seeing results. Would a lap timer with sector times on dash be useful? Is there another way besides laptimer to evaluate my driving line while riding on track?
 

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What does it feel like or look like when I have a good driving line?
I understand theory of maximizing straights and minimizing turns, using markers and late apex. However, as soon as the visor goes down I forget / don’t have a way to evaluate myself until I’m back in the pits looking at data.

There is too much time between acting and seeing results. Would a lap timer with sector times on dash be useful? Is there another way besides laptimer to evaluate my driving line while riding on track?
It feels: boring, nothing happening, slow.


"theory of maximizing straights and minimizing turns" is one of those old useless bullshit slogans. What you really want to do is to maximize grip usage and speed simultaneously. If you are maximizing straights you are not using grip, if you are minimizing turns you are slow.
And it is also a different thing, if you make erros, and those forces you to use maximum grip.
Vs you are maximizing speed + trail braking + increasing lean angle = maximum grip usage, and maximizing apex speed = max lean angle = max grip usage, and opening throttle linearily from apex + decreasing lean angle = max grip usage.


A very good indicator is that you dont have to think what to do with throttle, or wait before touching throttle. Throttle control feels like it is automatic.
When you are doing it wrong a very good indicator is that you can not pick up the bike after apex/ and you can not open throttle linearily and continously/ you have max lean angle after apex/ and you find yourself on top of outer curb stone.

So if you have good line before apex, no problems after apex.
If you have bad line before apex, then you have problems after apex.
Thats the instant feedback.
 

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It feels: boring, nothing happening, slow.


"theory of maximizing straights and minimizing turns" is one of those old useless bullshit slogans. What you really want to do is to maximize grip usage and speed simultaneously. If you are maximizing straights you are not using grip, if you are minimizing turns you are slow.
And it is also a different thing, if you make erros, and those forces you to use maximum grip.
Vs you are maximizing speed + trail braking + increasing lean angle = maximum grip usage, and maximizing apex speed = max lean angle = max grip usage, and opening throttle linearily from apex + decreasing lean angle = max grip usage.


A very good indicator is that you dont have to think what to do with throttle, or wait before touching throttle. Throttle control feels like it is automatic.
When you are doing it wrong a very good indicator is that you can not pick up the bike after apex/ and you can not open throttle linearily and continously/ you have max lean angle after apex/ and you find yourself on top of outer curb stone.

So if you have good line before apex, no problems after apex.
If you have bad line before apex, then you have problems after apex.
Thats the instant feedback.
Very good feedback and indicators of what I need to focus. I must always have a bad driving line because I have to think about the throttle every corner!!!
 

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Very good feedback and indicators of what I need to focus. I must always have a bad driving line because I have to think about the throttle every corner!!!
Fix your line and you will be 10 seconds faster, then fix everything else and you will be additional 5 seconds faster, on that track. Maybe those 10-15 seconds will tell you that you still have "something" to fix.

One useful skill is to be able to see from data what kind of errors faster/ very fast riders do. For example analyze that expert data, and you will see that also they are doing the very same mistakes all the time as you are doing. The only difference between you and faster rider is the magnitude of those mistakes.
 

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Congrats Smash, and thanks to speedfinn for his help! Best of luck to both of you!
 
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