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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Be interesting to see if and what's different and what mods work on the 2023 S1000RR.

It appears the new top yoke kills the vibrations and this is the second person that has described the bike as "smooth".

 

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Will Still have the flatspot in 2/3rd gear on US models .. 馃ぃ馃槈
This is true, and the HP rating is the same also as K67 20-22

151KW or 202.4 crankshaft HP.. not the rear tire

I have the race code already for the 2023 and awaiting a test bike still to see if the ECU can be accessed.

Zak brags about how smooth it feels, some of it is that nice solid cast copy of the M1000RR upper triple. I rode my 2022 last weekend and I have the billet M1000RR upper on it and it is even more smooth than my 2021 which also has the M1000RR upper. The 22 engine is updated slightly over the 2021.. BMW Motorrad never releases data on the updates. It would cause people under warranty to request the updates and call it a defect fix, not an upgrade fix.
 

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This is true, and the HP rating is the same also as K67 20-22

151KW or 202.4 crankshaft HP.. not the rear tire

I have the race code already for the 2023 and awaiting a test bike still to see if the ECU can be accessed.

Zak brags about how smooth it feels, some of it is that nice solid cast copy of the M1000RR upper triple. I rode my 2022 last weekend and I have the billet M1000RR upper on it and it is even more smooth than my 2021 which also has the M1000RR upper. The 22 engine is updated slightly over the 2021.. BMW Motorrad never releases data on the updates. It would cause people under warranty to request the updates and call it a defect fix, not an upgrade fix.
I remember reading the M cast upper and the lever guards are what did the trick on vibration. It鈥檚 about damn time as the S1000RR vib issue has always been it鈥檚 biggest flaw in my eyes. I need to ride one and really see if it鈥檚 better.
 

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Some add heavier bar-ends to minimise vibrations ... so how does the newer top tree clamp being more solid help with vibration and also some install the lever guard does this then effect as they weigh less that barends ?
 

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This is true, and the HP rating is the same also as K67 20-22

151KW or 202.4 crankshaft HP.. not the rear tire

I have the race code already for the 2023 and awaiting a test bike still to see if the ECU can be accessed.

Zak brags about how smooth it feels, some of it is that nice solid cast copy of the M1000RR upper triple. I rode my 2022 last weekend and I have the billet M1000RR upper on it and it is even more smooth than my 2021 which also has the M1000RR upper. The 22 engine is updated slightly over the 2021.. BMW Motorrad never releases data on the updates. It would cause people under warranty to request the updates and call it a defect fix, not an upgrade fix.
There's so much confusion on the HP numbers, why is there not a definite answer? They say 210/205, you say 202馃し鈥嶁檪锔 The 23 has to make something more than the 22s, it has the K66 Head and airbox.
 

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HorsePower and torque are a product of measurement from work output.

The problem is that BMW Motorrad uses CRANKSHAFT HP numbers. Tuners like myself use real world rear tire numbers.

If you take the 205HP crank and you take away the driveline loss of 12HP there about. It works out to the real world Dyno Horsepower number most will see and many have posted.

205-12 = 193HP rear tire horsepower.

WSBK and everyone else uses crank horse power numbers as well because it makes the bikes sound fast and powerful.

I have clearly shown that 203/204HP at the rear tire works forward from driveline loss to 216HP at the crankshaft. Now some tuners like to brag this number and try to make themselves look good / better than another that uses the real world what you see as a consumer at the rear tire.

210 is the new UK crankshaft horse power if one is to believe that is what the 2023 will dyno at really. If you work that backwards to the rear tire we have 198HP at the rear tire. that is respectable and about what alot of tuners are putting out there with their tunes. About 198 at the tire. I have very consistent results at 203/204HP at that tire.

I have the M1000RR and all the K67 S1000RR's now. 23 maybe next month. I had to buy a new truck that came in early last week. So I ordered the 23 a little late for this batch hitting now.

There is only a little magic to the M1000RR air box. I will build a thread on it. The external of the air box casing is exactly the same S1000RR to M1000RR. The different is the boot sealing and the secondary velocity stacks.
 

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HorsePower and torque are a product of measurement from work output.

The problem is that BMW Motorrad uses CRANKSHAFT HP numbers. Tuners like myself use real world rear tire numbers.

If you take the 205HP crank and you take away the driveline loss of 12HP there about. It works out to the real world Dyno Horsepower number most will see and many have posted.

205-12 = 193HP rear tire horsepower.

WSBK and everyone else uses crank horse power numbers as well because it makes the bikes sound fast and powerful.

I have clearly shown that 203/204HP at the rear tire works forward from driveline loss to 216HP at the crankshaft. Now some tuners like to brag this number and try to make themselves look good / better than another that uses the real world what you see as a consumer at the rear tire.

210 is the new UK crankshaft horse power if one is to believe that is what the 2023 will dyno at really. If you work that backwards to the rear tire we have 198HP at the rear tire. that is respectable and about what alot of tuners are putting out there with their tunes. About 198 at the tire. I have very consistent results at 203/204HP at that tire.

I have the M1000RR and all the K67 S1000RR's now. 23 maybe next month. I had to buy a new truck that came in early last week. So I ordered the 23 a little late for this batch hitting now.

There is only a little magic to the M1000RR air box. I will build a thread on it. The external of the air box casing is exactly the same S1000RR to M1000RR. The different is the boot sealing and the secondary velocity stacks.
Maybe there's some misunderstanding here, I'm very aware of driveline loss and don't expect to see 210rwhp even at stage 2. It looked like you were saying that the K67 20-22 vs K67 23 would be the same crank hp at 202. Even before the bike was fully announced, there was talk about 2.5 hp over the 22 year, the head and airbox would seem to be able to accomplish that number. What is the real difference in the specs? Why is the US 205hp and the EU 210hp? If it's the tune, then that number is irrelevant correct, because we'll just tune it back up anyways?
 

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@Cobradaddy it is impossible to beleive what Motorrad post in press releases. Things change, rules with Euro and EPA change, nothing is set in stone these days.

Currently ISTA and AIR of Motorrad show >

The 2023 S1000RR Euro is 154KW which is 206.5 HP.. and again, these are BMW Motorrad crankshaft HP numbers. Euro S1000RR 2019 to 2022 was 152KW which is 203.8 HP

The 2023 S1000RR USA is 151KW and the same on the 2020-22 S1000RR 151KW which is 202.4HP at the crankshaft.

Of course it is the tune. The ECU has so much control these days this S1000RR is sold to countries that have more restriction when the USA.

The air box thread

 

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@Cobradaddy it is impossible to beleive what Motorrad post in press releases. Things change, rules with Euro and EPA change, nothing is set in stone these days.

Currently ISTA and AIR of Motorrad show >

The 2023 S1000RR Euro is 154KW which is 206.5 HP.. and again, these are BMW Motorrad crankshaft HP numbers. Euro S1000RR 2019 to 2022 was 152KW which is 203.8 HP

The 2023 S1000RR USA is 151KW and the same on the 2020-22 S1000RR 151KW which is 202.4HP at the crankshaft.

Of course it is the tune. The ECU has so much control these days this S1000RR is sold to countries that have more restriction when the USA.

The air box thread

As per this response, it looks like the EU bike has seen the HP increase from the M parts and most likely the US model has been tuned more restricted to match the same output as last year. One seems like they can assume once tuned, the bike will make more power than the 22s.

I'm also aware how BMW can not be that reliable with information, there might be a Sh1t storm once people realise they're not getting reasets in the billet package, even though the website includes them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I believe manufactures and probably WSBK publish crack HP/TRQ b/c they dyno engines not vehicles. Nothing more nefarious than that.

For cars, BMW is well known to under publish HP/TRQ numbers. Not sure about motorcycles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
As per this response, it looks like the EU bike has seen the HP increase from the M parts and most likely the US model has been tuned more restricted to match the same output as last year. One seems like they can assume once tuned, the bike will make more power than the 22s.

I'm also aware how BMW can not be that reliable with information, there might be a Sh1t storm once people realise they're not getting reasets in the billet package, even though the website includes them.
IMO, BMW didn't "tune" NA motorcycles to match 2022. I believe that whatever they are doing to meet EPA or noise restrictions (thanks California) resulted in the NA bikes loosing the small top end gain.

Either way not sure why everyone is so enamored with "peak" HP. Not like anyone is ever going to hit those numbers off a dyno and if they do their behavior isn't conducive to a long life.
 

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IMO, BMW didn't "tune" NA motorcycles to match 2022. I believe that whatever they are doing to meet EPA or noise restrictions (thanks California) resulted in the NA bikes loosing the small top end gain.

Either way not sure why everyone cares so much about "peak" HP not like anyone is ever going to hit those numbers off a dyno and if they do their behavior isn't conducive to a long life.
Either BMW is just not printing new power outputs for something else is going on. I don't think anything emissions wise changed from 22 to 23, could be wrong. However, new parts have been added and show the speculated increase in the EU model, so something is different with the US one, and a tune is the easiest way to restrict it.

If you want to go down the road of riding manners of some who want peak hp, then you can also question why 200hp 190mph bikes are even made legal to be ridden on roads, also 700hp Hellcats, GT500s, Z06s, Lambos, and so on? Not too many people on any forum, who have never once opened up their bikes way past legal speeds. If you haven't, then there's no reason to even get one of these for the street.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Either BMW is just not printing new power outputs for something else is going on. I don't think anything emissions wise changed from 22 to 23, could be wrong. However, new parts have been added and show the speculated increase in the EU model, so something is different with the US one, and a tune is the easiest way to restrict it.

If you want to go down the road of riding manners of some who want peak hp, then you can also question why 200hp 190mph bikes are even made legal to be ridden on roads, also 700hp Hellcats, GT500s, Z06s, Lambos, and so on? Not too many people on any forum, who have never once opened up their bikes way past legal speeds. If you haven't, then there's no reason to even get one of these for the street.
Not saying there is anything wrong w/owning a 200 HP or more vehicle. What I was attempting to say is it the usable range and character of the motorcycle is say 0 to 150 which is well, well below the peak 200 HP and if that peak number is 210, 205, 203 or even 185 I doubt it would effect the usable range and character. Also we don鈥檛 feel HP we feel and enjoy TRQ, which is why I believe BMW developed the TRQ tune b/c they know full well no one is living at 200HP.

I鈥檓 hopefully, that BMW reworked the TRQ tune for 2023, which resulted in the lower 205 HP number, but is significantly greater than the previous TRQ tune peak of 179 HP. But the gain is too much and probably just wishful thinking.
 

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Not saying there is anything wrong w/owning a 200 HP or more vehicle. What I was attempting to say is it the usable range and character of the motorcycle is say 0 to 150 which is well, well below the peak 200 HP and if that peak number is 210, 205, 203 or even 185 I doubt it would effect the usable range and character. Also we don鈥檛 feel HP we feel and enjoy TRQ, which is why I believe BMW developed the TRQ tune b/c they know full well no one is living at 200HP.

I鈥檓 hopefully, that BMW reworked the TRQ tune for 2023, which resulted in the lower 205 HP number, but is significantly greater than the previous TRQ tune peak of 179 HP. But the gain is too much and probably just wishful thinking.
All I'm saying is why is there even a discrepancy between these numbers? I just like to know the details of the improvements that have been made. It's part of a mental things as well, you want to know you're getting something better for more money besides some wings. There's a $1000 rebate on the 22 right now, would really make someone think twice about the 23s if there wasn't something better about it. I just like to see facts, and when they're unclear, I want to know why. Adding the K66 head and airbox had to of been for more than just an increased redline, I'm just curious for that reason.

And do the stock tunes really matter? Whatever BMW makes it, are people really not flashing that out, or am I not understanding that correctly. My bike will be flashed at the first service, does that TRQ tune matter at that point?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
All I'm saying is why is there even a discrepancy between these numbers? I just like to know the details of the improvements that have been made. It's part of a mental things as well, you want to know you're getting something better for more money besides some wings. There's a $1000 rebate on the 22 right now, would really make someone think twice about the 23s if there wasn't something better about it. I just like to see facts, and when they're unclear, I want to know why. Adding the K66 head and airbox had to of been for more than just an increased redline, I'm just curious for that reason.

And do the stock tunes really matter? Whatever BMW makes it, are people really not flashing that out, or am I not understanding that correctly. My bike will be flashed at the first service, does that TRQ tune matter at that point?
Seeing some 2022 w/$2K off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
In this older pre-release article, I found these two points interesting. I doubt one tooth will eliminate the US flat spot but it appears that hardware and software change may help? We'll have to wait for some owners to chime in. Number 3 may be why I'm seeing comments about MY2023 being smoother.

2. The rear sprocket is one tooth larger. The RR gained a tooth in the rear and should also liven-up acceleration. Whether that helps alleviate the noise emission-related flat spots we experienced on the 2020 BMW S 1000 RR remains to be seen.

3. Revised quickshifter settings are a welcome change. Engineers have altered the quickshifter鈥檚 programming, applying a new torque model to assist with shifts across the rpm spectrum. Reaction times are refined, which we hope leads to smoother shifting.

 
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