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Not really sure, haven't had to fight for any issues before. I would have to imagine BMW doesn't have the time to go through every claim and would leave it up to the dealer for the call. Never dealt with BMW or the dealer before, they have given me nothing to question them on and have been honest up to this point. Some people do not feel comfortable playing around with mods, some people can't afford a repair bill if something happens and are just happy owning something new. Hopefully they are getting more consistent with quality, sounds like the new bike is a step in the right direction, at first glance.
BMW is going through each and every warranty claim. It's up to the BMW rep reviewing the claim whether they'll just rubber stamp the approval or dig deeper. Hence what I witnessed from my dealer as to the pictures taken and such. I have a personal friend that's a BMW tech for the auto side at a dealership. He has stepped in to talk to the BMW warranty person about getting things cleared through. He's also flagged cars that had mods done which would immediately raise flags if the car were ever brought to another dealership or his for warranty work. He did this on a particular car because the owner was less than honest with him about what was done to the car. My friend was pissed he wasted so much time tracking down the issue which turned out to be the owner had screwed around with the DME. And for automotive techs, time is money as they're paid what book time states and not the actual time spent doing the job. It's further compounded with the lower than market rate for labor payout for warranty work by BMW.
 

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Maybe it's being pushed because of how expensive these bikes are, this bike is like 15k more than my last new one. I'm just relaying what I've been told by a tech who deals with BMW, not someone who's talking about someone who posted about someone else's bikes issues. Not to mention you can't just deny a warranty because something has been modded, they have to prove that part was directly responsible for the part being warranted failure.

Anyone who goes down the path should know what could be at the end.
This is the fallacy that too many people believe. That and that the Magnuson Moss Act will protect them. Facts is, if BMW wants they will deny the claim/warranty. Then you will have to prove your part is not related to the failure. It might not go that far for something straight forward but blow an engine and the conversation will be different. I still don’t understand how that one guy got his engine covered.

Motorrad may be behind but on the car side BMW is flagging and voiding warranties as soon as ISTA is attached to the ODBII port even if you’re in for routine maintenance. They are also locking the DME and trying everything they can to stop owners from shooting themselves in the foot. It’s gotten to the point where we can’t add a module that‘s not associated to the VIN, or ISTA will flag it and not let the tech proceed diagnosing or servicing the vehicle.

IMHO, I think BMW is getting tired of covering owner who f*** their car and pretend that they did nothing to contribute to the failure. When I went to the track, I alway bought track pads and track rotors. I’m pissed b/c for years a**holes are taking their cars to the track, roasting their stock pads and rotors and expecting BMW to replace them under warranty. Well guess, what? BMW doesn’t cover pads and rotors anymore. You want to play then man up and pay. Not directed at anyone. Just venting.

As for flashing back and forth. Even if BMW couldn’t see the tune they can see the logs and what is in and out of spec.

You should do as you please but please don‘t tell others that there is no downside.

Read your owner’s manual. Especially, the part about data collection, Sections 6, 7 & 8 and how it can be used. Warning, “I feel“ the section, I copied from the manual is misleading and may make folks think the data BMW needs is only transient. A large portions is but you can bet whatever BMW needs to evaluate a claim is there and whatever the police need is stored in the EDR.

Operating data in the vehicle
Control units process data so that the vehicle can run.

Examples of this include:
  • Status messages from the vehicle and its individual components, such as wheel RPM, wheel centrifugal velocity and deceleration
  • Ambient conditions, such as temperature
<The following two sentences though most likely legally correct, I feel are worded very poorly and misleading.>

The data is processed only in the vehicle itself and is usually temporary. The data is not stored beyond the period in which the vehicle is operating. Electronic components such as control units contain components for storing technical information. This may be information about the vehicle's condition, component load, events or faults stored temporarily or permanently.

This information generally documents the condition of a component, module, system or the surrounding area; for example:
  • Operating conditions of system components, such as fill levels and tire pressure
  • Malfunctions and faults in key system components, such as lights and brakes
  • Vehicle responses in specific riding situations, such as the activation of riding dynamics systems
  • Information about events causing damage to the vehicle
The data is necessary for providing control unit functions. In addition, it is used by the vehicle manufacturer to detect and eliminate malfunctions as well as to optimize vehicle functions.

The majority of this data is temporary and is processed only within the vehicle itself.

Only a small amount of event-driven data is stored in the event data recorder and fault memory.

When a vehicle is serviced, such as for repairs, servicing processes, warranty cases and quality assurance measures, this technical information can be read out from the vehicle together with the vehicle identification number.

EDIT: I found this while reading about ODBII, https://www.kbb.com/obd-ii/on-board-diagnostics-guide/

When a fault occurs, the OBD-II system records the engine’s operating conditions in what is called “freeze frame data.” Freeze frame data represents a single frame of information and is stored in the system’s memory until the code is repaired or cleared. However, if faults of higher priority, such as hard codes affecting the catalytic converter or engine, occur before the original code is resolved, the original freeze frame data may be overwritten by the hard code and its freeze data.
...

What Are Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC)?
If your car’s sensor sends information to the Electronic Control Unit (ECU) that falls outside the normal range, the ECU saves the information in what is known as a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC). The DTC is a series of numbers and letters that locates the source and nature of the problem. The OBD-II codes, on the other hand, is a term that includes the entirety of the DTC system (body codes, chassis codes, powertrain codes, and network codes).
 

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You should do as you please but please don‘t tell others that there is no downside.
You can go ahead and quote where I tell anyone to go do anything. These are things I'm doing to my bike. As always I'm just relaying what I've been told just like you and everyone else are doing here also. It's up to any adult reading this if it's worth it or not.
 

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You can go ahead and quote where I tell anyone to go do anything. These are things I'm doing to my bike. As always I'm just relaying what I've been told just like you and everyone else are doing here also. It's up to any adult reading this if it's worth it or not.
Look not trying to call you or anyone out. When people read forums there are sometimes statements that sound like fact and may lead some to make a decision that could in the future bite them. Will it, perhaps not just trying to provide a balanced perspective so folks make an informed decision.

Perhaps I should have said...

You should do as you please but please don‘t imply to others that there is no downside.

To me this read as fact and it just isn't true no matter what the local dealer told you...

As for BMW knowing you're tuned, that is false. BMW does not know when you bike is tuned unless you raised the rev limiter. This is coming straight from a BMW dealer tech.
 

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I've posted a screenshot of my bike running without a tune with the lambda readings off the O2 sensors from GS911. It shows the bike running on the rich side if anything. So no, the bike doesn't need it.

As to BMW knowing, they absolutely will. Omasou has posted up links to threads on Bimmerpost showing people having warranties being denied due to tunes being applied to the DME even after being returned to the stock flash.
If you haven't read this thought you might be interested in the article.

If TLDR; I thought you'd find these parts interesting and the ONLY place that I have read it.

On the air/fuel mixture affects, RPM’s Iain Rhodes says, “by taking out what we call the blockage (the cat), we’re obviously running slightly leaner at the bottom end of the rpm. As we come up to 8000rpm, it’s running richer because the LAMBDA sensors throw a little bit more fuel in, all the way up to 12,000rpm.
As far as the emissions police are concerned 13.2 is claimed as ‘perfect LAMBDA’, and a dyno run, when it’s connected to the rights parts of the bike, can also show how lean or rich an engine is running. The S1000RR is running a little lean at 5-5000rpm, ideal for a “crisp pull” according to Iain Rhodes of RPM Bikes. It gets richer at about 8000rpm and by 12,000rpm its bang on the money again.

 

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If you haven't read this thought you might be interested in the article.

If TLDR; I thought you'd find these parts interesting and the ONLY place that I have read it.

On the air/fuel mixture affects, RPM’s Iain Rhodes says, “by taking out what we call the blockage (the cat), we’re obviously running slightly leaner at the bottom end of the rpm. As we come up to 8000rpm, it’s running richer because the LAMBDA sensors throw a little bit more fuel in, all the way up to 12,000rpm.
As far as the emissions police are concerned 13.2 is claimed as ‘perfect LAMBDA’, and a dyno run, when it’s connected to the rights parts of the bike, can also show how lean or rich an engine is running. The S1000RR is running a little lean at 5-5000rpm, ideal for a “crisp pull” according to Iain Rhodes of RPM Bikes. It gets richer at about 8000rpm and by 12,000rpm its bang on the money again.

Thanks for the info and link. I have to admit when I pulled the Lambda readings off my bike it was at cold start and at steady idle. So at very low RPMs, my bike is running on the richer side. I haven't thrown the bike on a dyno nor run a full RPM sweep without the trans engaged. So there are those variables. But going by how my bike runs when I'm out and about, I would say it runs on the rich side as evidenced by all the exhaust popping that I get even some times in 6th gear.
 

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Look not trying to call you or anyone out. When people read forums there are sometimes statements that sound like fact and may lead some to make a decision that could in the future bite them. Will it, perhaps not just trying to provide a balanced perspective so folks make an informed decision.

Perhaps I should have said...

You should do as you please but please don‘t imply to others that there is no downside.

To me this read as fact and it just isn't true no matter what the local dealer told you...

As for BMW knowing you're tuned, that is false. BMW does not know when you bike is tuned unless you raised the rev limiter. This is coming straight from a BMW dealer tech.
Implying was your interpretation, I can't control how someone interpretats something, but that's why I used "I" in everything I said.

Why do you consider yourself someone who gets to say whether or not if someone is wrong but can't be wrong yourself?
 

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If you haven't read this thought you might be interested in the article.

If TLDR; I thought you'd find these parts interesting and the ONLY place that I have read it.

On the air/fuel mixture affects, RPM’s Iain Rhodes says, “by taking out what we call the blockage (the cat), we’re obviously running slightly leaner at the bottom end of the rpm. As we come up to 8000rpm, it’s running richer because the LAMBDA sensors throw a little bit more fuel in, all the way up to 12,000rpm.
As far as the emissions police are concerned 13.2 is claimed as ‘perfect LAMBDA’, and a dyno run, when it’s connected to the rights parts of the bike, can also show how lean or rich an engine is running. The S1000RR is running a little lean at 5-5000rpm, ideal for a “crisp pull” according to Iain Rhodes of RPM Bikes. It gets richer at about 8000rpm and by 12,000rpm its bang on the money again.

Thanks for the article.

My experience is that the bike is fast as a rocket after mounting the full akra-system without being on a Dyno afterwards (or another form of tuning) and I did not find it at any rpm run bad. Maybe at low rpm the original exhaust even felt a little bit stronger (but that's just personal experience and possibly not worth anything/maybe not even true).

I don't know if it would run even better after such a tune, but I am not going that route since that would void warranty according to my dealer. I don't know whether or not that is true, but I would be happy if the dealer stands by my side when I would have a big warranty-claim like a blown engine, so I follow their advice. Besides that I am keeping an eye on discussions like these, because I would like to know what I am missing (with the tune) and hear the experiences of other people with a full system with or without any additional tune. I do not mind spending money on the bike, but the chance of losing my warranty for a tune, which maybe doesn't even make that much of a difference for me, would not be worth it. That I still spend the money for the full (titanium) system is because of the weight saving, sound and the looks. As I understand now from the article, it could even make a +11 bhp in the mid section without a tune.

For people stepping in late: the 2022 full system akra for the S1000RR/M1000RR defenitely fits the 2023 S1000RR/M1000RR.
 

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For people stepping in late: the 2022 full system akra for the S1000RR/M1000RR defenitely fits the 2023 S1000RR/M1000RR.
Just to call it out again, as it was already posted.

The headers in a "full" Akrapovic system, e.g. headers and exhaust, do NOT work w/any other slip-ons including Akrapovic.

For MY2023, the Akrapovic/BMW slip-on is standard. If you want to add headers and keep the slip-on or use another company's slip-on, you may want to consider the Akrapovic "optional" headers. Other brands headers may also work but cannot speak to their fitment.
 

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Thanks for the article.

My experience is that the bike is fast as a rocket after mounting the full akra-system without being on a Dyno afterwards (or another form of tuning) and I did not find it at any rpm run bad. Maybe at low rpm the original exhaust even felt a little bit stronger (but that's just personal experience and possibly not worth anything/maybe not even true).

I don't know if it would run even better after such a tune, but I am not going that route since that would void warranty according to my dealer. I don't know whether or not that is true, but I would be happy if the dealer stands by my side when I would have a big warranty-claim like a blown engine, so I follow their advice. Besides that I am keeping an eye on discussions like these, because I would like to know what I am missing (with the tune) and hear the experiences of other people with a full system with or without any additional tune. I do not mind spending money on the bike, but the chance of losing my warranty for a tune, which maybe doesn't even make that much of a difference for me, would not be worth it. That I still spend the money for the full (titanium) system is because of the weight saving, sound and the looks. As I understand now from the article, it could even make a +11 bhp in the mid section without a tune.

For people stepping in late: the 2022 full system akra for the S1000RR/M1000RR defenitely fits the 2023 S1000RR/M1000RR.
As it has been stated in these forums, there is a pretty big loss of power in 2-3 gears. Unfortunately we're in an age where they can control how much throttle they give you and when they give it to you, causing some of these dips in power. Maybe BMW does it different, maybe the 23s don't have that same HP loss, but a tune/flash now does more than adjust AFRs. Maybe you can get the TQ map flash from BMW, that'll eliminate the dip, but that takes HP off the top. Changing the flow characteristics of the bike, IMO, could be grounds for BMW to say no to a blown engine claim. So that would put installing a full system on the risk list. If people are worried about having a claim denied, don't mod the bike, everything is a risk. For piece of mind, you can always take it to a Dyno to see where everything is at. It's usually cheap and will let you know how your bikes running.
 

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As it has been stated in these forums, there is a pretty big loss of power in 2-3 gears. Unfortunately we're in an age where they can control how much throttle they give you and when they give it to you, causing some of these dips in power. Maybe BMW does it different, maybe the 23s don't have that same HP loss, but a tune/flash now does more than adjust AFRs. Maybe you can get the TQ map flash from BMW, that'll eliminate the dip, but that takes HP off the top. Changing the flow characteristics of the bike, IMO, could be grounds for BMW to say no to a blown engine claim. So that would put installing a full system on the risk list. If people are worried about having a claim denied, don't mod the bike, everything is a risk. For piece of mind, you can always take it to a Dyno to see where everything is at. It's usually cheap and will let you know how your bikes running.
No harm involved just to take it to a Dyno to see how it performs (as you say). Maybe nice to do it before mounting the system and after.

I will have to read about the big loss of power, I did not know yet. A well-known tuner around here told me that the older S1000RR's had some problems adjusting to the mounting of a full system (and thus running too poor or too rich afterwards, possibly resulting in blown engines), but the newer ones are doing fine without (are capable of adjusting themselves) though you will always get better results after individualized setup/tune. The article send by @omasou seems to confirm that since they do not write about any big loss in 2-3 gears but about a (fair) increase in the mid. As long as the loss would be in the lower rpm though I wouldn't mind.

With my 2017 S1000RR, I had a full system mounted and got to a topspeed of almost 190 mph on my datalogger, never feeling any loss (but not measured on a Dyno, so maybe there was a loss). I have not ridden my 2020 S1000RR that hard yet, but according to the beforementioned tuner, the K67 is even more capable of adjusting itself to the full system. This combined with the statements of my dealer gives me enough peace of mind to mount the full system (again) but not to tune/flash, other than what might be done through BMW (but I haven't heard of that TQ map flash, what is it?).
 

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That I still spend the money for the full (titanium) system is because of the weight saving, sound and the looks. As I understand now from the article, it could even make a +11 bhp in the mid section without a tune.

For people stepping in late: the 2022 full system akra for the S1000RR/M1000RR defenitely fits the 2023 S1000RR/M1000RR.
That's what Akrapovic claims, see View the data here, Akrapovič | World Championship-Winning Exhaust System Technology

The page does say "For perfect performance, throttle response and durability, remapping is recommended." but doesn't say what that means for an EU mapped motorcycle.

This is their graph.
 

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No harm involved just to take it to a Dyno to see how it performs (as you say). Maybe nice to do it before mounting the system and after.

I will have to read about the big loss of power, I did not know yet. A well-known tuner around here told me that the older S1000RR's had some problems adjusting to the mounting of a full system (and thus running too poor or too rich afterwards, possibly resulting in blown engines), but the newer ones are doing fine without (are capable of adjusting themselves) though you will always get better results after individualized setup/tune. The article send by @omasou seems to confirm that since they do not write about any big loss in 2-3 gears but about a (fair) increase in the mid. As long as the loss would be in the lower rpm though I wouldn't mind.

With my 2017 S1000RR, I had a full system mounted and got to a topspeed of almost 190 mph on my datalogger, never feeling any loss (but not measured on a Dyno, so maybe there was a loss). I have not ridden my 2020 S1000RR that hard yet, but according to the beforementioned tuner, the K67 is even more capable of adjusting itself to the full system. This combined with the statements of my dealer gives me enough peace of mind to mount the full system (again) but not to tune/flash, other than what might be done through BMW (but I haven't heard of that TQ map flash, what is it?).
The newer bikes use the O2 sensors to adjust the fuel while you ride, so essentially you can just remove the restrictions and the bike will adjust for the rest, but I don't know what range they can adjust for, if an exhaust throws the AFR too far off can it compensate for it.

People from the US were complaining about the mid range HP dip in the lower gears, so they made a tune available that gave it back, but it took away peak power. I'm not 100% but I thought it was a EU flash, I'm sure someone here can fill you in better than I can. There are Dyno videos showing this dip.

Actually now looking at your flag, you probably don't have the dip in your tune, it was the US ones.
 

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By the way, I am sorry that I was getting off-topic.

Since we all now know that the main question of this topic is answered I got another difference spotted between US and EU based on the BMW-websites.

M 1000 RR | BMW Motorrad (bmwmotorcycles.com) & M 1000 RR | BMW Motorrad NL (bmw-motorrad.nl)

If all this BMW published info is true than the EU mapping already gives 7 hp more peak power and a topspeed of 195 instead of 189. Or is it just that in the US you cannot show values if they are not (at least) true?
 

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By the way, I am sorry that I was getting off-topic.

Since we all now know that the main question of this topic is answered I got another difference spotted between US and EU based on the BMW-websites.

M 1000 RR | BMW Motorrad (bmwmotorcycles.com) & M 1000 RR | BMW Motorrad NL (bmw-motorrad.nl)

If all this BMW published info is true than the EU mapping already gives 7 hp more peak power and a topspeed of 195 instead of 189. Or is it just that in the US you cannot show values if they are not (at least) true?
I'm pretty unfamiliar with the EU ECU, not sure what's restricted vs the US. If the gearing is the same, they probably do the same, but we do have the speedo locked at 189 even though the RPM keeps going, you'll need a gps to get past that.

This whole thread got off topic before your questions. It's all good, it brought up discussions, which is always good. I feel like sometimes the forums are a bit slow with new chats.
 

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Try taking off the exhaust and see if you like it. These guys have stock pipes and a car exhaust tip.

I just added a car exaust tip. But I will replace my mid-pipe with a SS exhaust and have to reinstall the Akra silencer.
 

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No harm involved just to take it to a Dyno to see how it performs (as you say). Maybe nice to do it before mounting the system and after.

I will have to read about the big loss of power, I did not know yet. A well-known tuner around here told me that the older S1000RR's had some problems adjusting to the mounting of a full system (and thus running too poor or too rich afterwards, possibly resulting in blown engines), but the newer ones are doing fine without (are capable of adjusting themselves) though you will always get better results after individualized setup/tune. The article send by @omasou seems to confirm that since they do not write about any big loss in 2-3 gears but about a (fair) increase in the mid. As long as the loss would be in the lower rpm though I wouldn't mind.

With my 2017 S1000RR, I had a full system mounted and got to a topspeed of almost 190 mph on my datalogger, never feeling any loss (but not measured on a Dyno, so maybe there was a loss). I have not ridden my 2020 S1000RR that hard yet, but according to the beforementioned tuner, the K67 is even more capable of adjusting itself to the full system. This combined with the statements of my dealer gives me enough peace of mind to mount the full system (again) but not to tune/flash, other than what might be done through BMW (but I haven't heard of that TQ map flash, what is it?).
The reason why the K67 can do without a tune versus the previous generations is because of the wideband O2 sensors used.
 

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I'm pretty unfamiliar with the EU ECU, not sure what's restricted vs the US. If the gearing is the same, they probably do the same, but we do have the speedo locked at 189 even though the RPM keeps going, you'll need a gps to get past that.

This whole thread got off topic before your questions. It's all good, it brought up discussions, which is always good. I feel like sometimes the forums are a bit slow with new chats.
The gearing is the same according to the websites (17/46). We do have the speedo locked at 299 (being 185,83 mph if I am doing the math right) so it was through my datalogger (with GPS indeed) I got to the 305,37 (almost 190 as I mentioned on the '17), but producers do like to share what speed their bike would be capable of. The 7 bhp on the final end could maybe deliver the slightly higher topspeed, though I would not expect every bhp would (roughly) result in an extra mph. In the higher regions it becomes much more difficult to 'win' from the air resistance (to increase topspeed).

The reason why the K67 can do without a tune versus the previous generations is because of the wideband O2 sensors used.
Thanks. I got that from the post of @Cobradaddy already or did the older versions used O2 sensors too, only not wideband? Just curious. I do not know the exact techique behind the adjustment by the bike itself.
 

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The gearing is the same according to the websites (17/46). We do have the speedo locked at 299 (being 185,83 mph if I am doing the math right) so it was through my datalogger (with GPS indeed) I got to the 305,37 (almost 190 as I mentioned on the '17), but producers do like to share what speed their bike would be capable of. The 7 bhp on the final end could maybe deliver the slightly higher topspeed, though I would not expect every bhp would (roughly) result in an extra mph. In the higher regions it becomes much more difficult to 'win' from the air resistance (to increase topspeed).



Thanks. I got that from the post of @Cobradaddy already or did the older versions used O2 sensors too, only not wideband? Just curious. I do not know the exact techique behind the adjustment by the bike itself.
The older versions used O2 sensors too. But they weren't wideband.
 
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