Suspension question about drop ins if bike has DDC - BMW S1000RR Forums: BMW Sportbike Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-13-2019, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
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Suspension question about drop ins if bike has DDC

I have a question. I have have a 2016 S1000RR with DDC. Could suspension cartridges be used on my bike since I have DDC? Or would the computer throw out error codes? What would be the outcome if this was done?

If this wasnt recommended because then the DDC wouldnt work. Could the springs in my front suspension be upgraded that would still work with the DDC? And if so could anyone recommend a good set of springs. As much as I like the way the bike handles I feel as though even in sport mode the bike is a bit squishy and doesnt dive into turn like I want it to quick enough.

2016 BMW S1000RR
2015 BMW S1000R
2015 Ducati Panigale
2011 Harley Davidson Dyna (fully custom)
2010 Harley Davidson Street Glide (fully custom)
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-14-2019, 07:02 AM
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Yes, you can install cartridges into your DDC legs, but you will have an error shown on the dash. This can be corrected with the Alpha module plugin, or you can have the ECU flashed to eliminate it. Or just ride it as is.
You can also change the springs if you think that will help, Triple Tuning in Germany or Alpha Racing have replacement springs, or Ted Porter's Beemershop (I think).

We can't recommend a replacement spring, we don't know your weight or riding style. It would be best to see a good local suspension shop.
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-14-2019, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycler View Post
I have a question. I have have a 2016 S1000RR with DDC. Could suspension cartridges be used on my bike since I have DDC? Or would the computer throw out error codes? What would be the outcome if this was done?

If this wasnt recommended because then the DDC wouldnt work. Could the springs in my front suspension be upgraded that would still work with the DDC? And if so could anyone recommend a good set of springs. As much as I like the way the bike handles I feel as though even in sport mode the bike is a bit squishy and doesnt dive into turn like I want it to quick enough.

I can reprogram your ECU to NON-DDC. It is my opinion only, but the DDC code works with the DTC code. If you have a Alpha DDC delete module, that would freeze the code in one position only. It cannot be variable to make the DDC code think that something is working when it really is not.

You can ride with the !DDC error flashing on the cluster, but again, my butt dyno tells me the ECU is not reacting the same in DTC with the DDC errors occurring.

@skapan has touched on some good sources for springs and values will depend on your preferences of ride.

If you want the best performance out of DDC you really have to invest in the 2D front sensor so that ECU and ESA know what is going on with the ride situations. You need RCK3/HP power kit enables ( which I do also ) so that more parameters can be set to meet all needs. Electronic suspension is great when you spend some time with it. I have alot of R&D with it. I have every option I can throw at it to know what is going on with the system. I even used the sector functions on the track to have various damping and rebound going on with the DDC system.

Riding and loving my 2020 K67 with the custom XWORKS ECU
Check out MotoMillion ( forum Vendor section ) for all your needs in ECU work
Check out MotoMillion also has programming for RCK3 / HP power Kit enables now
Programmer for MotoMillion is myself ( BMW_388 )
I personally own the 2014, 2015, 2018, 2020 S1000RR
This makes for checking my ECU work is perfect every time sold by MotoMillion
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BMW_388 View Post
I can reprogram your ECU to NON-DDC. It is my opinion only, but the DDC code works with the DTC code. If you have a Alpha DDC delete module, that would freeze the code in one position only. It cannot be variable to make the DDC code think that something is working when it really is not.

You can ride with the !DDC error flashing on the cluster, but again, my butt dyno tells me the ECU is not reacting the same in DTC with the DDC errors occurring.

@skapan has touched on some good sources for springs and values will depend on your preferences of ride.

If you want the best performance out of DDC you really have to invest in the 2D front sensor so that ECU and ESA know what is going on with the ride situations. You need RCK3/HP power kit enables ( which I do also ) so that more parameters can be set to meet all needs. Electronic suspension is great when you spend some time with it. I have alot of R&D with it. I have every option I can throw at it to know what is going on with the system. I even used the sector functions on the track to have various damping and rebound going on with the DDC system.
Thanks for the response. From both of you.

I have read a few posts about guys installing 2D front sensors and the RCKR/HP power unit. I will be honest, this is a little confusing to me regarding what they do exactly. And how it will benefit me. Before I purchase something like these I have to educate myself on its use, what it does and any other information I can get a hold of. Unless if you dont mind explain what are the benefits and how they work in a way a 10 year old can understand lol.

And regarding springs I will look into the companies listed above

2016 BMW S1000RR
2015 BMW S1000R
2015 Ducati Panigale
2011 Harley Davidson Dyna (fully custom)
2010 Harley Davidson Street Glide (fully custom)
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 11:21 AM
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This is a great discussion; I'll share my own experience with the 2d sensor that was suggested above. But before going into to it, I'll take a shot at the 10 year old explanation: The 2d sensor allows the bike to better understand front suspension travel, sorry, bouncing up and down, and by how much. This allows the ECU, the bike's computer the ability to adjust for damping the up (compression) and down (rebound) bouncing action at different rates. Before the 2d, it used the same damping rate for both bouncing up and down. This does not = smooth recovery in most cases imo. So in short, the 2d sensor not only allows the DDC to have different rates of damping for the bounce up and the bounce down actions, but it also affords the rider the ability to adjust both settings separately in your cluster. Your bike's ecu (computer) will automatically detect the sensor once it's installed and allow you to adjust both damping settings (compression and rebound). Whew!

My first impression after installing the sensor was in short, confidence. The bike behaves in a more predictable fashion, but since asking similar questions on this board about how DDC actually works, and doing some research online, I no longer wish to upgrade to standard suspension, but only to understand DDC better and be able to keep tweaking it to my preference. As for the suggested RCK3/HP kit, BMW388 is in a far better position to take a crack at esplaning it, and it's something I may be pinging him for in the future....

One final note, when you change riding modes on you cluster, that in turn not only affects DTC, but also DDC. I think BMW should've included the sensor with the DDC bikes, but I'm certain the new breed has it built into the fork tubes.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 12:18 PM
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I have a 14 single R. From what I can tell the front DDC gets input from the rear travel sensor, is this correct or is there an internal sensor in the fork? Can a 2d sensor be added to the R?
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starpower View Post
I have a 14 single R. From what I can tell the front DDC gets input from the rear travel sensor, is this correct or is there an internal sensor in the fork? Can a 2d sensor be added to the R?

the 2014 R is the first year of BMSX ECU. So yes, you can put the 2D on there and enjoy the same benefits as the 15 RR and newer.

The rear sensor is only for the rear shock/swingarm travel. You will get the additional tuning in your cluster as the 15 RR does for front suspension.

Riding and loving my 2020 K67 with the custom XWORKS ECU
Check out MotoMillion ( forum Vendor section ) for all your needs in ECU work
Check out MotoMillion also has programming for RCK3 / HP power Kit enables now
Programmer for MotoMillion is myself ( BMW_388 )
I personally own the 2014, 2015, 2018, 2020 S1000RR
This makes for checking my ECU work is perfect every time sold by MotoMillion
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-15-2019, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netaron View Post
This is a great discussion; I'll share my own experience with the 2d sensor that was suggested above. But before going into to it, I'll take a shot at the 10 year old explanation: The 2d sensor allows the bike to better understand front suspension travel, sorry, bouncing up and down, and by how much. This allows the ECU, the bike's computer the ability to adjust for damping the up (compression) and down (rebound) bouncing action at different rates. Before the 2d, it used the same damping rate for both bouncing up and down. This does not = smooth recovery in most cases imo. So in short, the 2d sensor not only allows the DDC to have different rates of damping for the bounce up and the bounce down actions, but it also affords the rider the ability to adjust both settings separately in your cluster. Your bike's ecu (computer) will automatically detect the sensor once it's installed and allow you to adjust both damping settings (compression and rebound). Whew!

My first impression after installing the sensor was in short, confidence. The bike behaves in a more predictable fashion, but since asking similar questions on this board about how DDC actually works, and doing some research online, I no longer wish to upgrade to standard suspension, but only to understand DDC better and be able to keep tweaking it to my preference. As for the suggested RCK3/HP kit, BMW388 is in a far better position to take a crack at esplaning it, and it's something I may be pinging him for in the future....

One final note, when you change riding modes on you cluster, that in turn not only affects DTC, but also DDC. I think BMW should've included the sensor with the DDC bikes, but I'm certain the new breed has it built into the fork tubes.

That is correct in that RAIN, SPORT, RACE, SLICK have they individual predetermined settings. Here is the old cheat sheet on that for 15/16 .. I am sure that it applies to most all DDC bikes.




I wish I could prove that DDC and DTC work 100% together, but that requires me to reverse the MAP section of the code. It is difficult enough for me to read the EEPROM side of the ECU because my programming is not good in 32 bit assembly language I learned long ago.

Think about what a good engineer is going to sit there and spec out in software coding for reading available parameters. We have SLIP CALCULATION. In the programming world there can be so many more input parameters involved in this block diagram that BMW just did not give the full picture of the calculation events. Upon looking at SLIP CALCULATION if DDC is part of the equation then about right here is input from ESA to provide what front and rear is doing at this moment in time. I know I would figure in suspension in heavy or light compression or rebound. IF you are in rebound and the travel is over extending SAG zero ( CALIB ) then, you are going over a hill and unloading the suspension system. What you would request in torque curve would be far different than in compression if you are in the throttle exit off the corner. DDC can provide all this information to the ECU for DTC events.

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Riding and loving my 2020 K67 with the custom XWORKS ECU
Check out MotoMillion ( forum Vendor section ) for all your needs in ECU work
Check out MotoMillion also has programming for RCK3 / HP power Kit enables now
Programmer for MotoMillion is myself ( BMW_388 )
I personally own the 2014, 2015, 2018, 2020 S1000RR
This makes for checking my ECU work is perfect every time sold by MotoMillion

Last edited by BMW_388; 01-15-2019 at 02:29 PM.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 12:27 AM Thread Starter
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2D sensor

So now its time to really do my research start saving for those 2D sensors since I have a 2015 S1000R and a 2016 S1000RR. Damn these forums and their ways of making me spend money lolol

2016 BMW S1000RR
2015 BMW S1000R
2015 Ducati Panigale
2011 Harley Davidson Dyna (fully custom)
2010 Harley Davidson Street Glide (fully custom)
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-16-2019, 12:43 AM
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Sell both. Buy a 2019-2020 model fully loaded, with or without DDC. Done.
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