Complaint to BMW about the 2020 power delivery - Page 27 - BMW S1000RR Forums: BMW Sportbike Forum
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post #261 of 342 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Elk View Post
But what statement in the quoted material is demonstrably false?

For example, is " . . . you've got 205 HP beneath you. Unbridled power pushes your RR to the max - with a maximum torque of 83 lb-ft at 11,000 rpm and a torque curve of at least 74 lb-ft over a range of 5,500 to 14,500 [rpm]" untrue? Where specifically is the "false advertising?"

I understand some are disappointed. But disappointment does not equal fraud.
At the very least, I would say that the following are not accurate:

"...noticeably higher performance..."
"...significantly more torque and power is applied even in low and medium engine ranges..."

More torque? even in low and medium ranges?

I've seen those dyno sheets, and it is almost the opposite of what they are saying here, at least in 1-5 gears.


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post #262 of 342 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 04:34 PM
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All this complaining is ridiculous if you ask me. Get over it.

If you don't like the bike as it is or don't want to tune it, don't buy it. Even before the tune my bike felt like a beast. After the tune, even more so.

BMW isn't going to lose sleep over your lost deposit. Is it a little disappointing that it came that way from the factory? Sure. If I could only ride my bike in stock form, would I pass on buying it because of the flat-spot? Hell no. It's a savage, is so nimble, and so fun. And if you don't mind tuning? There are plenty of tuners who will release the bike's potential for you. Don't want to tune? Just want to complain? Don't buy it. No-one is forcing you.

I enjoyed my bike plenty in stock form and I wasn't disappointed with it.

Class-action lawsuit? You guys are high. There was also a member on here who sold his 2020 and claimed it was "dangerous at altitude" because of the "absence of power." Seriously, listen to how ridiculous some of you sound.

I'm not saying people can't voice any complaints whatsoever. I'm not saying that. But to the people claiming BMW owes them money or BMW should be taken to court... you are absolutely absurd.

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post #263 of 342 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by GixY2K View Post
At the very least, I would say that the following are not accurate:

"...noticeably higher performance..."
But does one get the advertised horsepower and at least 74 lb-ft over a range of 5,500 to 14,500.?

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post #264 of 342 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 07:50 PM
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In 5th gear....
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post #265 of 342 (permalink) Old 09-14-2019, 11:12 PM
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I don’t have a dog in the fight and I’m not an attorney.

But at this point any class action would be fairly small.

You do have a duty to mitigate damages.

If a class action was filed, it is small enough BMW attorneys could easily search online to find anyone who knew of the power restrictions and purchased the bike after knowing.

https://injury-law.freeadvice.com/in...te-damages.htm
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post #266 of 342 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 05:21 PM
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This complaint is similar to that of the BMW 2006 M5, which didn't have real launch control in the US version, but did in the rest of the world. It was an advertised feature There were threats of a suit but nothing ultimately happened. Ditto here.

My guess is the BMW underestimated the task of getting the new RR and its exhaust system approved by the EPA. I bet they had the hardware done, which met the EU and other regulatory body's standards, and then went to get it approved in the US where it became clear they dropped the ball. They were likely faced with a number of difficult solutions:

1. change the exhaust system for the entire world and somewhat harm its weight and power
2. make a special exhaust system for the US that harmed its weight and power,
3. game the EPA noise certification by throttle and exhaust valve opening in software for specific sections of the testing protocol.

They clearly chose door #3. #1 would have been a costly and delaying option. It also would have reduced the appeal of the new RR across the world. Option 2 would have also been costly and made for two different bikes.

US owners have a means to fix the problem: get an ECU tune, which costs about 3% (or less) of the total cost of the bike. It not only provides performance on par with the rest of the world, but even slightly better. And it has the flexibility to further boost the benefits of a full exhaust system replacement.

Where BMW must tacitly go along is in not being aggressive in denying warranty claims because owner gave it the tune it should have had from the factory and is reviewed/advertised around the world. If they do this, they do open themselves up to lawsuits and even worse, a tarnished reputation as a manufacturer for performance enthusiasts.

BTW, the Brentune transforms this bike. Really. I didn't get my flash complete until I returned from two track days (CSS) on their US-tune 2020 RR. Mine now is way faster and drivable.
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post #267 of 342 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Nev3rL8 View Post
Also. People speculate the reason behind flat spot, and and i haven't seen BMW admit or address it officially. Which is very irresponsible on their behalf if the flat spot does exist.
How is it irresponsible to follow the rules? I doubt BMW wanted to do nurf the power. They had no choice in the US market. I'm just gonna get a tune. I don't think its that serious.

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Last edited by Carlito; 09-16-2019 at 11:48 AM.
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post #268 of 342 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 02:25 PM
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How is it irresponsible to follow the rules? I doubt BMW wanted to do nurf the power. They had no choice in the US market. I'm just gonna get a tune. I don't think its that serious.
As I stated, BMW could have produced a quieter exhaust system to comply with the regs. This may have added a slight bit of weight and/or been a bit more restrictive, but would have obviated the need for the radical midrange power limitations presently in the US tune. My guess is they were caught flat footed late in the design and certification, and the US tune was the easiest, fastest and cheapest way to comply. I bet they have a different exhaust system in 2022, at least for the US. The stock tune more than just eliminates the benefits of the shiftcam; it's worse than anything.

The new XR will likely point the way to what BMW Motorrad will do with the RR going forward.
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Last edited by Tom Bernhardt; 09-16-2019 at 02:27 PM.
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post #269 of 342 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Bernhardt View Post
The new XR will likely point the way to what BMW Motorrad will do with the RR going forward.
I doubt it the XR will never be as potent as the RR is. It will be way less highly-strung making the emissions easier to meet.
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post #270 of 342 (permalink) Old 09-16-2019, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by simes007us View Post
I doubt it the XR will never be as potent as the RR is. It will be way less highly-strung making the emissions easier to meet.
Not talking 2020 or the new shift-cam, but the older models I am pretty sure the R & XR were more 'potent' in the areas that emissions testing is done(which is mostly in the lower part of the rev range). Of course someone will probably come along and completely refute my statement.
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