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Clutch issues. swelling?

10K views 12 replies 5 participants last post by  yuggoboy 
#1 · (Edited)
Bike: S1000RR 2011.
19k miles / 30k km
Big service done a few months ago, according to maintenance schedule.
Started noticing this issue after service, but this can be a coincidence or hotter weather.

Problem:
When the bike gets hot the clutch cable free play increases, anything from 0.5" free movement on the lever to the whole lever just being free play.

Example 1:
I adjusted the clutch cable to have the correct free play (0.5 - 1.0mm) while bike was cold.
It was a hot day 85f (30c) and after an hour on the highway going at about 80-90mph (130-145km/h) the clutch lever had so much slack it came knocking on my knuckles.

Example 2:
I set the correct slack while cold, then went out for driving. I did some launches, went driving on a twisty road and came home about an hour later.
I couldn't get the bike to neutral or even shift gears when I got back to the garage. The free play in the lever was about first half of the clutch grip.
After removing all that free play I could shift in to neutral again.

Note:
I have never really been able to get it from 1st to neutral, since I bought this bike about a year ago.
I noticed that after I've done hot adjustment and the bike cooled down, I can. So it seems my clutch cable needs to be over tightened to be able to shift 1st -> neutral.

Service details:
My valves was checked, but no adjustment was needed.
Oil was changed to Motul 5100 according to my receipt.

Together with the regular maintenance I also:
*switched from a full race exhaust with decat to the stock exhaust.
*switched the power commander back to a 0 map.
(Perhaps both of these changes can increase temperature a bit).

Lastly, is it worth replacing the "shift star" on the old models while doing clutch work?
As I understand it, BMW has improved that part.

I know that the clutch slack on these bikes changes a bit while hot, but this is excessive, so I think something is broken or incorrectly set.
Any ideas what it could be?
 
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#2 · (Edited)
I started to do some basic checks.

I found this picture of clutch cable routing:
My cable seems to be routed correctly, but the picture doesn't show how the routing from right side to left side should be done.
If there is some magic going on here to keep the cable from touching parts of the engine, please enlighten me.

Then I thought I should check the oil level.
Manual showing oil level info
Alright, so check oil when bike is hot and engine is turned off. Oil level should be within the circle.
I didn't have my gear when I was in the garage, so I let the bike idle until the display showed 160f (70c+).

First a picture of how it looks when cold. Looks normal to me.

While engine is idling, ~160f. Too low?


Turned engine off, waited a minute.
 
#3 ·
I was having issues when my bike was hot with finding neutral going from 2 -> 1 or 1 -> N sitting at a stop or even when slowly approaching a stop. It only happened when really hot after being stuck in stop and go traffic in the city on hot days.

Brought this issue to the attention of the service department when bringing the bike in the for 20k service and they adjusted the clutch free play "slack" as you're referencing and since then I've not had an issue. Seeing as how they just did a fairly major service I would think the first thing would be to bring it back into the dealership and get them to resolve the issue. What else do you pay them large sums of money at your service visits for if not to correct seemingly minor issues in comparison to a valve clearance check/adjustment? I would hope they would resolve this at no cost since they just had it in and somehow it didn't need to be adjusted yet you're experiencing some issues that clearly require attention.
 
#4 · (Edited)
Brought this issue to the attention of the service department when bringing the bike in the for 20k service and they adjusted the clutch free play "slack" as you're referencing and since then I've not had an issue.
Sorry, maybe "slack" is the wrong translation. English is not my native language.

Adjusting the free play as stated in the service manual gives these 3 conditions:

Cold: Clutch cable is not tight enough for 1 -> N, but good enough for all other shifts.
Hot: The clutch handle is a bit loose, shifting is harder, eventually 2 -> N is possible.
Really hot: Clutch cable has gotten so much free play the clutch handle is totally loose. Only clutchless shifting is possible. You'll need to use the brakes to stand still, since the clutch won't disengage.

There is no adjustment of free play that is according to specifications and still work correctly, cold or hot.
The "correct" free play is a bit too small cold and waaay too small when hot.

Maybe I could just super-over-tighten the clutch cable, but I want to find the underlying issue.

Seeing as how they just did a fairly major service I would think the first thing would be to bring it back into the dealership and get them to resolve the issue.
I did. They believe my clutch is busted or a cheap third party clone. They want $900 to replace the clutch.
I wanted to find out if somebody had seen this issue before, maybe it's something else going on.

But I'm a bit dubious, why would my clutch suddenly become like this after the service? Or is it just the hotter weather doing it's thing? I don't know.
 
#7 ·
Ok so if the shop near you is reputable as you’ve stated then I would trust their opinion and get them to look into it. Maybe there’s an issue at play and they’ll be able to solve it. This definitely seems like a PITA and I’m not sure id want to be dealing with it during riding season but a clutch issue isn’t something you can easily wait until the off season to address. If replacing the cable yourself would cost more than paying the shop to diagnose the issue then it’s an easy choice, pay them. I’ve only ever replaced one clutch cable and it was due to fraying near the lever end but otherwise I’ve never had many issues. I’m not super proficient with the S1000RR and it’s many intricacies so this is why I’m content to let the dealer fix things. As a licensed technician for cars I have come to realize customers come back to the dealer for work because they trust our work and knowledge. I wish I could help more but this falls outside my scope of knowledge and other than minor adjustments to my clutch cable on my GSX-R before the S1KRR I’m just not tinkering with a bike I’ve spent over 30k on in areas I’m not willing to risk messing up on. I’ll do my own oil changes, chain adjustments/cleaning/lubing, accessory installs but where I draw the line is when it affects something that could drastically change how the bike operates and more specifically something as important and being able to shift gears. I’d hate to lose control or have an incident on the bike that could have been prevented by letting a professional with much more knowledge than I work on the bike. A few hundred dollars or more is more than reasonable to me to let a factory trained technician make adjustments or diagnose issues on something that I’d rather spend my time enjoying than fixing.
:end rant:
 
#8 ·
Yeah doesn't sound right at all. Have you always owned the bike?

1. Check clutch cable mounting at the actuating arm and where the bottom adjustment is located. Under the tank and on the left side of the bike. Make sure both lock nuts are tight where the cable is adjusted at the bottom.
2. Cable is possibly stretched very badly
3. Clutch thrust piece needs to be adjusted (on the clutch hub)
 
#9 · (Edited)
Yeah doesn't sound right at all. Have you always owned the bike?
No, I've owned the bike less than a year. Bought it last autumn.

1. Check clutch cable mounting at the actuating arm and where the bottom adjustment is located. Under the tank and on the left side of the bike. Make sure both lock nuts are tight where the cable is adjusted at the bottom.
2. Cable is possibly stretched very badly
3. Clutch thrust piece needs to be adjusted (on the clutch hub)
1. Thanks, I've looked at the arm previously, but I will double check it.
2. May be, but only while hot
3. How can this be verified?


This definitely seems like a PITA and I’m not sure id want to be dealing with it during riding season but a clutch issue isn’t something you can easily wait until the off season to address.
I still have my F4i, so it's fine :) I kept it, because I know these things happen and I have no car.
Driving the F4i from Gothenburg to Stockholm and back over the weekend. Going for a cruise and meetup. Going to be a 600 mile drive in total, so I would have preferred the BMW seat though.

A few hundred dollars or more is more than reasonable to me to let a factory trained technician make adjustments or diagnose issues on something that I’d rather spend my time enjoying than fixing.
:end rant:
Agreed. I've done most of the service myself in the past. I try to avoid it nowadays, but if I have to, it's okay.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Time for an update.
I sent the bike to a mechanic, I thought the clutch plates were busted.

When the mechanic looked at my bike, he found that the cog wheel that goes around the clutch basket had free play when it shouldn't.
Thus the clutch basket, the pressure plate and the bolts had been damaged. He also said that my clutch plates were burned.

My clutch basket was replaced with one from a crashed s1000rr that had 8000km/500 miles on the odometer.
The clutch plates were replaced with new ones from Barnett. (At least according to the mechanic, the receipt doesn't show a brand).
The mechanic accidentally broke the return spring for the clutch (the one that often breaks), so it was replaced as well.

After all this, I felt a lot less vibration in the right footpeg (great!), but the clutch issues doesn't seem to have been resolved.

Today I made two videos.

First I drove through town for about 20 minutes. Not many stops and no hard driving, just regular commute.
It was 10c/50f outside and I was driving mostly at 80kmh/50mph and 40/25mph.

After I got to my destination, this is what the free play looks like.
It took me many tries to get from 1st to neutral. Because the clutch doesn't disengage as much.


This is 4 hours later, when the bike is cold. The free play is gone. I think this is correct adjustment according to the manual(?).


So is it the clutch cable? No, it itsn't. The free play comes from the arm/lever on the left side of the bike. The one where the spring is located.
When the bike gets hot, part of the travel of that lever becomes very lose while the point of where the clutch engages/disengages changes as well.
Please do note, that in this last video the bike isn't as hot as in the first, so the free play is less. But the video still shows that the free play does not come from the clutch cable, but the clutch arm.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I believe that the problem might be loosened/loose locknut on the clutch head "clutch thrust" piece which looks like this

213728

213729


Its also called "Clutch Basket Push Rod Thrust Adapter" part number21 52 7 710 919

For the explanation and installation click on the link below which will show it.


The clutch thrust piece needs to be adjusted using following procedure and after that verify the clutch play at the lever (0,5 ... 1 mm) :




213727
Slacken locknut (1).
Hold thrust piece (2) and tighten adjusting screw (3) until it is just seated.
Hold thrust piece (2) and tighten locknut (1).
Tightening torques
Locknut to clutch pressure head
M6
oiled
8 Nm
Check
Check that thrust piece (2) turns easily by hand.

Result:

Thrust piece cannot be turned easily by hand.

Measure:

Repeat the procedure for adjusting the thrust piece.

I hope this helps :)
 
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