Dyno Blues

[georgeb]

Nigel is correct 32 hp diffrence would fall into the catagory of 10-15 % diffrence on dynos... if you really want to get a nice dyno sheet go to some one who has a older dj 150 dyno or another brand . the numbers can vary by as much as 25% then.

[BUZZ]

my bone stock bike made just under 192 @ rear wheel on dyno jets uk own mobile rolling road....

[georgeb]

When a dyno sheet is posted all the run conditions should be on it.
the conditions play a major part in determining what the poweroutput will be.
dyno on a humid day or rainy conditions it might be a bit low, dyno on a col crisp morning it might be a bit high the truth is always some where in the middle.
when tuneing look for gains across the whole rpm range. not just a peak power.
a before run and after run should be provided. this way you could se how much more power the bike made before and after the tune.

[80shilling]

How many miles do you have on the Bike? After having had many race engines built for my Cars and also having gone through Dynoing my ZX-10R, maybe your engine is still quite tight and not broken in completely... An engine with 2500 miles will make a lot more power than one with 700 miles, assuming it has broken in correctly... Just a thought.... My ZX-10R picked up 12 HP from 800 miles to 2100 miles, with no changes and on the same dyno with almost identical temperatures (77 degree day on both occasions)....

[yzfr1mike]

Hi- I went through the HP ritual when I put the AK evo full system on my bike. I started out at 178 in 4th gear and 180 bin 6th gear, box stock. With the PC5, pipe and tuning it made 184 in 4th and 187 in 6th gear. The point is, that the BMW makes different numbers in 4th and 6th gears. Also, all dynos are different and can't be used to compare #s between different dynos.

The 200 plus HP readings are being done with BST CF wheels, a 520 chain, thinner oil, and also and most important, the dyno correction factor is set to standard, not the most accurate setting of SAE. In fact, I went to one of the pipe sales companies dyno charts and the original, stock test, was done with the SAE conversion, while the "final" readings were done using the "STD" setting. Just changing to STD from SAE on my dyno test and using the dynojet display software made a 3.5 HP difference. This trick is used to good effect by several sellers of pipes. Remember, compare both tests on the same dyno, preferably the same day, and the numbers are comparable.

I can claim 190 HP by using the 6th gear data and the "STD" correction factor. Note that the data is exactly the same, I only changed the correction factor.

[GuyLarsen]

And most of you have lost me with all this Tech stuff talk....Bike Dyno'd today at Lee's at 186 rwhp with a Power Commander and full race Akro with shorty on it.

186 ain't bad...it aint 193....but it still aint bad.

[wot]

SAE or STD ?

[wot]

Originally Posted by yzfr1mike

Hi- I went through the HP ritual when I put the AK evo full system on my bike. I started out at 178 in 4th gear and 180 bin 6th gear, box stock. With the PC5, pipe and tuning it made 184 in 4th and 187 in 6th gear. The point is, that the BMW makes different numbers in 4th and 6th gears. Also, all dynos are different and can't be used to compare #s between different dynos.

The 200 plus HP readings are being done with BST CF wheels, a 520 chain, thinner oil, and also and most important, the dyno correction factor is set to standard, not the most accurate setting of SAE. In fact, I went to one of the pipe sales companies dyno charts and the original, stock test, was done with the SAE conversion, while the "final" readings were done using the "STD" setting. Just changing to STD from SAE on my dyno test and using the dynojet display software made a 3.5 HP difference. This trick is used to good effect by several sellers of pipes. Remember, compare both tests on the same dyno, preferably the same day, and the numbers are comparable.

I can claim 190 HP by using the 6th gear data and the "STD" correction factor. Note that the data is exactly the same, I only changed the correction factor.

every word true.

From pipe to ceramic wheel bearings to race fuel (the biggest power booster over pump gas), to <0 oil....every advantage to put up a big number. You're not gonna ride into a shop with your stock S1 and come close to these numbers. You'll be disappointed and end up chasing your tail if you don't realize what all is actually done to show a rwhp like this. And this doesnt even take into consideration the variance in the shops dynos....some can be, well, extremely happy....

[dagor6]

Originally Posted by GuyLarsen

And most of you have lost me with all this Tech stuff talk....Bike Dyno'd today at Lee's at 186 rwhp with a Power Commander and full race Akro with shorty on it.

186 ain't bad...it aint 193....but it still aint bad.

186 ain't bad at all, by the way that was an SAE corrected dyno not STD. Here's three other S1000RR tuning runs on the same dyno you went to:

196 = stock motor, full Akra long can, race gas
208 = slightly built motor - Sunoco fuel (worse than pump gas)
218.5 = race fuel.

[Brock]

So Dyno 101 begins...

Let me apologize in advance if my replies from this point forward are a bit delayed. Our infield display with BMW Motorrad USA at Moto GP Indy was important enough to put my entire company on hold for a while, so I am playing catch up like a madman, and surely will be for a while.

First off, let me begin by saying that all dyno tests are subjective and a vast array of variables come into play to obtain accurate readings… add to this the fact that no two dynos read the exactly the same with daily weather (especially humidity) having a dramatic effect on outcome, and you can see how the dyno game can get quite tricky. I little background on Brock: my first experience dyno testing was on a Superflow engine dyno with Ray Bellucci in Chicago in the early 1990’s and I have had constant rear wheel dyno access since about 1995. I was American Suzuki supported from 1997 to 2004 to drag race sportbikes-based machines. In addition, I was the 2000 AMA/Prostar 750 Superbike National Champion, and I was the first person in the world to break into the sevens in the quarter mile on a street legal motorcycle – a 1997 1570cc Nitrous Oxide injected Suzuki Bandit, of all things. I have set over 25 national performance records myself, and my customers and sponsored racers have set/currently hold many more. I have been a crew chief for some of the highest profile names in motorcycle drag racing… most recently would be 9 time AMA national champion, Rickey Gadson, who won his ninth championship last year in a stock-based class called SuperSport riding a Monster Energy ZX-14 built by my satellite team Quantum Motorsports, to my specifications, and tuned by me personally. Rickey currently holds the ET record in the class at an 8.90, and the MPH record is held by the 2008 champion, Keith Dennis, on a GSX-R1000 at 165 MPH (both in the ¼). Keith’s bike was also built by Quantum Motorsports, and tuned by me.

Oh, that’s right… you guys don’t drag race. In 2010, I am supporting (and dyno tuned) the A Superstock championship winning machine of Tim Hunt of the Hooter’s WERA Suzuki team. (I also designed the exhaust used to win the championship.) NEWS RELEASE: BROCK'S PERFORMANCE-EQUIPPED TIM HUNT WINS WERA SUPERSTOCK NATIONAL TITLE

I also dyno tuned Nate Kern’s BST-clad S 1000 RR in his 4 regional championship leading CCS leading effort, and have developed a great relationship with Jeremy Toye and his BMW of San Diego/ Roadracingworld.com team as a result of Jeremy’s love of our BST wheels with ceramic bearings. Glad that’s out of the way, and very nice to meet you.

My current dyno facility here at Brock’s Performance is housed at a former state emissions testing facility, and I am quite confident that our supply/ventilation system, testing means, and calibration are all of the highest standards available (check the run notes comparing our independent weather data as a reference compared to the dynos self measured data from its weather ‘stack’). This is the way we do business, I quite literally stake my company and personal name on this… on a daily basis. Before I agreed to perform the S 1000 RR vs. GSX-R1000 dyno comparison for Super Streetbike Magazine, in order to check test validity, I used the stock S 1000 RR to gauge for accuracy on my in-house dyno (less than 1 year old Model 250I Dynojet in our state of the art, semi-climate controlled room sealed and ‘employee friendly’ vs. no climate control open to atmosphere) and then rolled it 30 feet away to my friend, Dyno Bob’s, mobile dyno (15 year old model 150 Dynojet in a trailer with swing out vendor doors/windows, open to atmosphere) within minutes.




You can tell from the dyno chart that I ended up with a mess! Our tests were within minutes, same altitude and weather conditions with a TWELVE HORSEPOWER variance?! FYI: You can see in the run notes that Bob’s dyno clock was not set correctly. Our race teams had been reporting consistent readings in the low 180 to 184 HP range from multiple dynos in various regions of the country. Now, TO BE CLEAR… racers/Internet bench racers, who want the conversation to be IN THEIR FAVOR, and most businesses and marketers quote STD numbers, because they read HIGHER than SAE numbers (usually @ 3-5 HP higher in this range). Magazines typically quote SAE. The general standard for speaking dyno language is STD because no one wants to quote smaller numbers. Think penis size… it’s just not what guys do.

So which was correct? My brand new state of the art $100K dyno/room at 171 RWHP on BMW’s new killer… or Dyno Bob’s 15 year old model 150 running a DOS based system and a 386 processor?! You guessed it… my new dyno had a problem with the hardware stack, and was calculating incorrectly from the base readings, even though the pressure was not alarmingly off and the humidity was within reason for an indoor (concrete floor warehouse) vs. an outdoor test.

After a sending the stack to Montana for repairs, I was able to perform the test video for Super Streetbike Magazine with confidence, and will stand by my results 100% (and so will the editor, Dave Sonsky.)

BMW S 1000 RR vs. GSX-R1000 Video Test Comparison for Super Street Magazine: YouTube - BMW S 1000 RR vs GSX-R1000 Dyno Comparison

I also posted the dyno charts, compared to a stock 2009 GSX-R1000 as a reference, to prove my dyno isn't "happy":

And lastly… OF COURSE, adding an exhaust ALONE will not make your new BMW make over 200 RWHP. The stock exhaust works too well for this -- unlike a Busa, ZX-14 or GSX-R1000 ;( I did not and never will say such a thing; although I will admit that some Dyno's WOULD register such readings… mine would not.

I will say, that if you add all of the bolt-on items that I suggest (exhaust, map, oil, gas, and several other items,) exactly as I suggest, then your bike can, and will, break 200 RWHP on my dyno without ever touching the engine. Here is some proof:

I have been beating the hell out of the bike all year, and just tested it again last Tuesday… still made 203 HP, four months and 180 drag strip miles later.

I hope this helps.

Brock
Brock's Performance Products