Racers...what geometry settings/changes work for you?

[Nikk777]

I bought a 2010 S1000RR racebike earlier this year to replace my zx10r racebike. First time out on the bike at Barber for a race weekend, it felt like I was back on my 600 which was great while riding around at 60-70%... As I started to up the speed, all sorts of issues arose! The front would get light over a rise which would come down into a tank slapper putting me over the front and about on the ground....I recovered, barely. Over another rise, as i crossed the seams of the pavement, the rearend would get all upset, start pumping and throw me out of the seat! I was over the bars 4 times during my races. I was working with Thermosman who is great and helped tremendouly, but there is limited data on this bike and thus setup is still a bit of a mystery.

So here I am reaching out to other guys racing this bike or riding the track at an aggressive advanced group pace for input so that we all can get the most out of the bike.

I would like to stay eligible for the superstock class so triples, links, pivots are not legal. Although I would like to hear your experience with them as I might drop that class if I can't get the bike to handle properly in stock form...

My bike has ktec gas forks(1.075 springs), ohlins ttx shock(0.95 sping), stock motor and otherwise besides pcv. I have recently heard that the heavier crank for 2011 cured some of the handling issues such as excessive wheelies. I wasted 2 seconds per lap at Road Atlanta pulling wheelies that I didn't want!!! Short shifting did not help!

My geometry has the 2 lines showing on the forks, rear link in the down position(shorter) and wheel is about midway in the swingarm.

Some are saying go flush with the forks, lower the rear, flip the rear mount to raise the rear, move the rear wheel back, shim the neck to change the angle, etc.

What have you done to geometry, what has worked, what hasn't, etc.

Note: Street riders and average trackday guys....unless you have your knee down and turning times for a podium finish at the track, you aren't going to experience what I'm referring to thus telling me your bike handles great doesn't help nor add to the discussion constructively. Fast street skills do not translate to fast track skills normally and do not work the bike like the track does. I was in your shoes 2 years ago so it's nothing negative against you, I just need insight from folks in the same position as I am to help move us all forward on the racetrack.

[DrIoannis]

You could also tell us the weight of you in leathers and riding style(do you like to trail break etc).

[pgm]

love the note at the end nice one.

[Nikk777]

I'm 240lbs, started racing a 600 so corner speed is my friend. Not much for trail braking. I tend to ride the 1k like a 600 so not much of the point and shoot style just yet. I'm finishing top 3 but fighting the bike all the while. I could go much faster if I could work out the handling gremlins and make the bike more corner friendly!

I'm working with thermosman who is one of the top Ohlins guru's but his time and knowledge of this bike is limited like everyone else so I'm trying to find out as much as possible. Guys are hunting and pecking for the right setup as I am so I'm just trying to get more ideas for changes that help.

For example, at road atlanta I was bottoming out going into 10a off the back stretch. Ended up with 17 rounds of preload. That made the bike steer like a brick and fall away from the apex. T-man changed the compression as I was blowing through the low speed comp while braking slow/steady causing the bottoming. He then took me back to 12 rounds of preload and added preload to the rear to bring it up and steer better. That worked well all except the wheelies. Made several changes to calm those down but it just hurt the cornering so I tried to manage the front wheel.

Also, I had a friend make me a custom seat/cover that adds a hump at the rear to force me to stay over the tank and keep weight on the front. This has helped some but I still rode wheelies through 2 gears down the straight while passing guys...gotta work on hitting the rear brake now! I recently was told that those wheelies are a byproduct of the lighter crank that was in the 2010 model and has since been improved with the heavier crank. It's also improved the pumping problem as well but I have no one to confirm this with?

[rhody]

Originally Posted by Nikk777

I'm 240lbs, started racing a 600 so corner speed is my friend. Not much for trail braking. I tend to ride the 1k like a 600 so not much of the point and shoot style just yet. I'm finishing top 3 but fighting the bike all the while. I could go much faster if I could work out the handling gremlins and make the bike more corner friendly!

I'm working with thermosman who is one of the top Ohlins guru's but his time and knowledge of this bike is limited like everyone else so I'm trying to find out as much as possible. Guys are hunting and pecking for the right setup as I am so I'm just trying to get more ideas for changes that help.

For example, at road atlanta I was bottoming out going into 10a off the back stretch. Ended up with 17 rounds of preload. That made the bike steer like a brick and fall away from the apex. T-man changed the compression as I was blowing through the low speed comp while braking slow/steady causing the bottoming. He then took me back to 12 rounds of preload and added preload to the rear to bring it up and steer better. That worked well all except the wheelies. Made several changes to calm those down but it just hurt the cornering so I tried to manage the front wheel.

Also, I had a friend make me a custom seat/cover that adds a hump at the rear to force me to stay over the tank and keep weight on the front. This has helped some but I still rode wheelies through 2 gears down the straight while passing guys...gotta work on hitting the rear brake now! I recently was told that those wheelies are a byproduct of the lighter crank that was in the 2010 model and has since been improved with the heavier crank. It's also improved the pumping problem as well but I have no one to confirm this with?

Nick,

Not a racer, but for what it is worth, have a look at what Dave Moss says about the BMW suspension here. Basically, the front forks need work, new springs, valve stack and heavier oil, and the electronics are better of the Kawasaki ZX10. With you being a heavy rider, I am sure that is significant to you. I have a full Ohlins setup on my bike, done a track day with it and ridden a stock bike in comparison at a fair clip on the street, had on gas/brakes and a bit of trail braking in the corners. I felt more planted on the Ohlins, but this really doesn't count until you compare on the track, which I have not had the opportunity to do.
Best of luck sorting your bike, and keeping the shiny parts shiny.

Rhody...

[AMRRA12]

Originally Posted by Nikk777

I bought a 2010 S1000RR racebike earlier this year to replace my zx10r racebike. First time out on the bike at Barber for a race weekend, it felt like I was back on my 600 which was great while riding around at 60-70%... As I started to up the speed, all sorts of issues arose! The front would get light over a rise which would come down into a tank slapper putting me over the front and about on the ground....I recovered, barely. Over another rise, as i crossed the seams of the pavement, the rearend would get all upset, start pumping and throw me out of the seat! I was over the bars 4 times during my races. I was working with Thermosman who is great and helped tremendouly, but there is limited data on this bike and thus setup is still a bit of a mystery.

So here I am reaching out to other guys racing this bike or riding the track at an aggressive advanced group pace for input so that we all can get the most out of the bike.

I would like to stay eligible for the superstock class so triples, links, pivots are not legal. Although I would like to hear your experience with them as I might drop that class if I can't get the bike to handle properly in stock form...

My bike has ktec gas forks(1.075 springs), ohlins ttx shock(0.95 sping), stock motor and otherwise besides pcv. I have recently heard that the heavier crank for 2011 cured some of the handling issues such as excessive wheelies. I wasted 2 seconds per lap at Road Atlanta pulling wheelies that I didn't want!!! Short shifting did not help!

My geometry has the 2 lines showing on the forks, rear link in the down position(shorter) and wheel is about midway in the swingarm.

Some are saying go flush with the forks, lower the rear, flip the rear mount to raise the rear, move the rear wheel back, shim the neck to change the angle, etc.

What have you done to geometry, what has worked, what hasn't, etc.

Note: Street riders and average trackday guys....unless you have your knee down and turning times for a podium finish at the track, you aren't going to experience what I'm referring to thus telling me your bike handles great doesn't help nor add to the discussion constructively. Fast street skills do not translate to fast track skills normally and do not work the bike like the track does. I was in your shoes 2 years ago so it's nothing negative against you, I just need insight from folks in the same position as I am to help move us all forward on the racetrack.

You need to yard out your stock fork kits toss them in the trash and get some Ohlins 30mm kits and a TTX shock if you are running fast at all the stock $hit is not going to work it's junk

[racrx451]

call Dan Kyle.. he will be able to help you out a bunch. I don't have any numbers yet but hope to this month.

[dagor6]

Originally Posted by Nikk777

I'm working with thermosman who is one of the top Ohlins guru's but his time and knowledge of this bike is limited like everyone else so I'm trying to find out as much as possible. Guys are hunting and pecking for the right setup as I am so I'm just trying to get more ideas for changes that help.?

Just to clear that up a bit, Thermosman is also on the San Diego BMW team and has been tuning the suspension for Toye and Rapp all season long, the top BMW chassis (suspension and geometry) expert in the country is going to be him or Cornwell.

There's nothing you can learn from any forum or other racer that's going to be on par with what T-Man is telling you now.

The basic issue here is your desire to race superstock. Superstock rules will usually keep you from getting the bike setup right for you, racers win superstock classes by simply using talent to ride around bike issues.

Do yourself a favor and switch to superbike, put on a set of Attack triples and an LCR linkage and get the bike set up the way you'd like.

[Nikk777]

Ok guys, thanks for the replies...

first I don't have stock forks... I have ktec gas forks. Far from crap...

Agreed!! T-man is awesome but like I said, his time for me is limited although he actually has helped me way more then I could have hoped for! He's top notch! And he probably has the most knowledge on this bike, but it's still just a year or so worth and they are still testing all sorts of different things. Plus those teams have all the trick parts and crazy talent in little biddy bodys. I have to remind him that I'm not an anorexic alien which changes the attitude of the bike usually. I'm just hoping there are some others out there that are experimenting as I am with the stock chassis trying to find a setup that works without further mods.

I know the triples and link are supposed to be the cat's meow but i'd like to try and let the bike shine without spending an extra $2k on hard parts to make it handle as it should. You don't have to have these parts to make the Jap bikes handle great so is it unreasonable to want a setup that doesn't require these mods? Bike already has $6k in suspension with the gas forks and ttx shock.

The power advantage is getting lost in the handling woes. Nailing it on the straights just to baby it through the corners is not making for optimum lap times. Suzuki-go get cap extenders, kawi's-over spring the rear, etc... Time has told what changes are necessary for these bikes to handle right. Now the clay to be molded is the bmw.

[338duckiller]

Yes.....you're in the same boat as me. Just throwing more money at my bike. I followed the setup step by step and did 5 track days with the stock suspension. Raising and lowering the forks finally got rid of the head shakes but then it wouldn't finish a corner. All I can say is I installed the new triple clamp and now it's like a totally different bike. I also installed full Ohlins. Has anyone insalled the new LCR link or any other ?