Change or NOT to change?

[SPETSNAZ]

I have always ridden on Michelin powers tires and they never gave up on me, even on the track. When I bought my BMW they came with Metzeler Racetec K3. I have not ridden on thme aggressive yet .But I am going on a 4 day trip to Tail of the Dragon in TN (been there) so I know what I am getting in to. Last week (I live in Chicago) I took the bike out ,about 55-60 deg. Took few semi aggressive turns( but with full and smooth control) without getting of the bike and I felt the rear sliding on me. I went back and checked for any debris there was none. So, that kind put a doubt in my mind whether it was a cold road or tires (but 55-62 deg? Should be warm).I am going on the trip and the last thing I want to think is there tires.
So I wanted to ask peeps that have these tires and ride corners aggressively how do you fell about them? Also in the rain?
I am really thinking going with Michelin pures again or Pirrelli Diablos .

[siglite]

My track experience tells me that cooler temps absolutely affect the grip level of tires, as a general rule. Both bridgestones and dunlops slid like crazy on me on the track for morning practices. Later in the day after the temps came up (for the races) the same corner, same gear, same speed, they'd stick like glue.

Scariest ride ever was around VIR with temps down in the high 30s. My tires may as well have been made of teflon. Scared the crap out of me.

[markjenn]

A number of us think that K3's are great tires, easily on par with equivalent tires from Michelin, Dunlop, Pirelli, Bridgestone, or Continental. If your K3's were slipping, I'd bet that anything else under the same conditions probably would be slipping too.

OTOH, if it makes you feel more confident, go ahead and swap them out. You'll find a lot of folks who would be more than happy to take the K3's off your hands (including me).

- Mark

[Lee#144]

Make the switch, you won't regret it because the michelins give you the confidence the others don't. It's funny, most track day newbies will drop lap times in huge chunks just by switching to race tires despite the fact they weren't close to pushing their street tires! You can't be fast without confidence

[Stang10189]

i have ran the pures sence they came out but the k3 is just as good if not better ecept for the fast wear down 2500mile and high prices

[RRrider]

Originally Posted by SPETSNAZ

I have always ridden on Michelin powers tires and they never gave up on me, even on the track. When I bought my BMW they came with Metzeler Racetec K3. I have not ridden on thme aggressive yet .But I am going on a 4 day trip to Tail of the Dragon in TN (been there) so I know what I am getting in to. Last week (I live in Chicago) I took the bike out ,about 55-60 deg. Took few semi aggressive turns( but with full and smooth control) without getting of the bike and I felt the rear sliding on me. I went back and checked for any debris there was none. So, that kind put a doubt in my mind whether it was a cold road or tires (but 55-62 deg? Should be warm).I am going on the trip and the last thing I want to think is there tires.
So I wanted to ask peeps that have these tires and ride corners aggressively how do you fell about them? Also in the rain?
I am really thinking going with Michelin pures again or Pirrelli Diablos .

lots of threads on tires...as Mark said above, many of us really like the K3's. I personally find them extremely grippy on dry pavement, definitely within the temperature range you mention. However for twisties, I have them at 32F/34R. I find if I put more tire pressure in (like what is recommended in manual) they don't feel good. Here in California, this covers me 8 - 9 months of the year. For the rainy months, I switched over to M5...80% the grip of the K3, but much better in the cold wet of winter. YMMV

[verrucktaxe]

i really like michelin pilots, have always used them on the ape, and will use them on the s1k when these wear out. They gripped great on the dragon, until i low sided, but can't blame the tires, that was operator balls-over-brains error.

Something to be said for doing what makes you comfortable. the last thing you need in those mountains is a voice in the back of your head worrying about anything on the bike. Do what gives you peace of mind and lets you focus on the road.

have a great trip!!

[SPETSNAZ]

Originally Posted by verrucktaxe

i really like michelin pilots, have always used them on the ape, and will use them on the s1k when these wear out. They gripped great on the dragon, until i low sided, but can't blame the tires, that was operator balls-over-brains error.

Something to be said for doing what makes you comfortable. the last thing you need in those mountains is a voice in the back of your head worrying about anything on the bike. Do what gives you peace of mind and lets you focus on the road.

have a great trip!!

That's exactly what Keith Code wrote in the recent article,” work on your technique one at a time and mainly don’t second guess yourself or the bike”. Thus, if I worry about tires I will not have confidence and kill a fun experience .

[SPETSNAZ]

Originally Posted by RRrider

lots of threads on tires...as Mark said above, many of us really like the K3's. I personally find them extremely grippy on dry pavement, definitely within the temperature range you mention. However for twisties, I have them at 32F/34R. I find if I put more tire pressure in (like what is recommended in manual) they don't feel good. Here in California, this covers me 8 - 9 months of the year. For the rainy months, I switched over to M5...80% the grip of the K3, but much better in the cold wet of winter. YMMV

Yes, there are many threads on tires. But my main question was about specifically about K3 tires since I never rode them and my question was directed towards the people that that rode on them aggressively (cornering).
By talking to a friend of mine (Advanced riders) the highly recommends Diablos on and off the track . He says theyr give him more feedback the Michelines.
Third part, I was thinking switching to Diablos Vs Michelins Pure. But at this point I think I will replace K3 and put Michelins since I allways rode them on canyons and even track and they were always good to me.

So, I guess if someone wants K3 with 1jk miles they be up for sale soon.

Thanks for your replies.

[Reciprocal]

Last Monday (May 2nd), the conditions at the 2.5 mile High Plains Raceway track in Byers Colorado, was 37F degrees when the track went green at 8:00 am, and reached only 53 degrees by 4:00 pm. The sun occasionally peeked from behind the cloud cover, but was mostly partly cloudy to overcast.

I exited pit lane and blended into turn 2 at about 8:20. I wore a turtle neck undergarment, and was generally warm and comfortable but had to keep the face shield partially open to prevent excessive fogging.

My first laps were on cold pressures 36F 42R. This was way too high, a little slippery, so I returned to the pits. I dropped the pressures to 30F 30R. This was decently grippy but felt squirmy in turn 4 and elsewhere, so I returned to the pits after just two laps. I increased the pressure by 3-4 pounds in each tire. This is was the best compromise between grip and stability.

I was on brand new K3 sticker tires, both ends. I probably only ran 25-30 laps all day, my physical conditioning not at peak.

No tire warmers, the K3's warmed up by two laps, or a little less.

So I thought they worked decently well in colder track temps. I don't think you'll be able get enough heat into them on the many slow turns of the Tail of Dragon to get them really sticky, although if the sun is out and maybe even if it is not, there should be enough grip to easily get the knee down I would think.

I've been very satisfied with Dunlops on other bikes. My main reason for going with the K3's again is confidence. It's not just about being grippy, but also having the right profile, the right flex in the carcass so that it works in harmony with my suspension setup, and communicates good feedback.

Be careful with the K3 in the wet. There's no tread at the edges so it behaves like a slick, with no channeling groove for the water to escape.

I also agree with others, not to run them too far. They seem to lose grip before they lose tread depth. The carcass is so thin, the tire so lightweight (especially the rear), there is truly only a couple of millimeters (at most) of rubber vulcanized at the edge. The edge goes away before the center, especially on the track, but also on the street if you do lots of curves. It's an expensive tire to run with.

Below is the aforementioned track day pic. If I have a concern, it's not so much cold weather performance but how long it will hold up at higher temps and extended running.