Can the BMW S1000RR engine be stroked?

[jake318]

As you have probably already heard the CEO of Dornas Carlos Espeleta ?sp is making any excuse to turn MotoGP into a NASCAR type series where all the machines are for all intent cookie cutter Bikes with different Name badges on the tank. Espeleta says its for .....cost cutting ... but then wants controled ECUs which will sky rocket cost with teams spending tons to work around the ECU to gain an advantage. Also if Espeleta wants ..Cost cutting... why allow the CRT machines to spend 3 times the amount on electronics than the factory teams ?

If they want the CRT bikes to compete speed/power wise the CHEAPEST way by far would be to allow the CRT bikes to stroke the production based engines to say 1200cc. Its cheap , relatively simple(compared to dumbing down the prototype MotoGP machines ) and the factories will be happy being able to develope new technologies in there 1000cc machines.
Honda has been bending over backwards(example : they offered to sell 23 satilite MotoGP bikes at COST only to have Espeleta shoot offer down saying Honda would have too much control.

I would love to see BMW go to the next level and develope a genuine MotoGP prototype but why would they want to invest so much money to create new leading edge technology only to have rules that purposely slow the machine until a street bike can be competitive?

[jake318]

A 1200cc CRT bike might not be able to beat an unhindered 1000cc MotoGP Prototype but at least it would be competitive. Much cheaper alterative and Both CRT teams and Factory teams happy.

[dagor6]

Originally Posted by jake318

A 1200cc CRT bike might not be able to beat an unhindered 1000cc MotoGP Prototype but at least it would be competitive. Much cheaper alterative and Both CRT teams and Factory teams happy.

It needs to go the other direction, de-stroked.

[antonn]

Originally Posted by dagor6

It needs to go the other direction, de-stroked.

please explain your logic it makes no sense to me to shorten the stroke on an already oversquare engine

[jake318]

BMW S1000R business plan got the attention of the business community all over the world. Not only did its sales far exceed expectations but it caused a domino effect as the buying Public took notice of the other fine products available in the BMW line. The Company has a unique oppertunity. On the heels of dominating the Japanese in the premier 1000cc literbike class if BMW where to win the MotoGP championship many market analists think that this would create an image of a company that is in a class by itself, superior in technical & engineering prowess . Much like Mercedes has done by utlilizing technologies designed and refined in F1 into there production automobiles. You and I know this really isnt the case , but the average buyer thinks he/she is buying a piece of F1.
In BMWs case people would think they where buying a bike that is head and shoulders above the rest in technology and engineering.

[skapan]

He's probably thinking that you will lower the rev limit if you stroke it due to piston speed and rod strength. The engine is already near the upper limits.

[dagor6]

Originally Posted by jake318

BMW S1000R business plan got the attention of the business community all over the world. Not only did its sales far exceed expectations but it caused a domino effect as the buying Public took notice of the other fine products available in the BMW line. The Company has a unique oppertunity. On the heels of dominating the Japanese in the premier 1000cc literbike class if BMW where to win the MotoGP championship many market analists think that this would create an image of a company that is in a class by itself, superior in technical & engineering prowess . Much like Mercedes has done by utlilizing technologies designed and refined in F1 into there production automobiles. You and I know this really isnt the case , but the average buyer thinks he/she is buying a piece of F1.
In BMWs case people would think they where buying a bike that is head and shoulders above the rest in technology and engineering.

BMW was asked to supply engines and electronics and whatever-else to MotoGP teams for CRT and were told the teams would pay whatever was reasonable. BMW proceeded to provide a quote that was a joke, signed up a customer immediately with said-crap and the customer had a miserable year, called it a "Sh@% bike" all season long and that was the end of it.

[dagor6]

Originally Posted by antonn

please explain your logic it makes no sense to me to shorten the stroke on an already oversquare engine

The revs need to go much higher to make usable power, not peak power.


Once your oversquare, the bigger the bore the more the power is going to come on higher up in the rev range. So, double down on that and +2mm the bore.

Only problem is it makes even more peak power, but if you want it to be really usable you need to lift the revs. If you shorten the stroke and switch to much higher-quality components, you can lift the revs 1-2K rpm.

Once you have a higher rev ceiling, you can swap the gears and ride it higher in the power band. That will minimize the differential between peak and minimum HP and smooth the power delivery on track.

[skapan]

Don't think there's room to +2mm the bore? You'd almost be able to see light through the space between.

[dagor6]

Originally Posted by skapan

Don't think there's room to +2mm the bore? You'd almost be able to see light through the space between.

I have a +2mm bore.