Lines - The Fast Sweeper

[blazer]

I have been making steady progress with line selection except for one area - the long, fast sweeper. It seems that no matter what I do, I am constantly falling off line and having to make continuous adjustments to that line.

I come into the turn setting my entry speed with my brakes, looking as deep as I can into the turn and then getting the bike over all as smoothly as possible. Thats when things go to crap. This is where I find myself wandering all over the place, adding or reducing throttle, increasing and reducing lean angles. Essentially the longer the sweeper, the more movement I have all over it. It like it is impossible for me to lock in a line or position and have it set though the whole turn.

Even though I said that I am doing better with other turns, I am beginning to think that I am making the same mistakes in the shorter length turns, but the results are not manifesting themselves because the short turn doesn't give enough time for the results of those mistakes to show themselves.

I wish my turn at CSS wasn't so far off, and there was a track a bit more reasonably close that I could get some guidance at. In the meantime, are there any pointers that people could offer that I could work on if for nothing else but to at least exclude potential problem areas so that I can get a bit more clarity on where and what my problem areas are?

Thanks!

B-

[1000RR]

Do you know or can you tell if it has to do w/suspension adjustment? I ask because I had some issues w/my S1 when I first tracked it that I'd run wide/high... the bike would push under hard throttle coming out of a turn and the result would be me having to manage the throttle to get it to track properly. That said, I noticed that on my race bike, we have a long sweeper (different turn) and our last track day I was kind of doing the same thing you're talking about. Finally I realized I was turning in slightly too early and it was causing me to take the turn a little slower and have to manage the exit (I tended to run higher at the exit). So I ended up trying to run deeper on the turn entry... and then go in (later apex) and it was night and day. More times than not, when I find I'm struggling is when I am turning in too early - screws up the rest of the turn at that point... or you're struggling to correct.

[blazer]

I can see where that could easily happen on a long sweeper. If you think about it, (and I could be VERY wrong here) the deeper you look into a long turn I would argue that you have a higher chance of getting into the turn too early just from the way the road looks at that point.

I am still running stock suspension. I am way to big for it, and am saving my shekels for Ohlins. I had not to different of a problem on my GSA until I put Wilburs on it. Then when I got the chassis to settle in on the turn it was like I was on a rail. But different bike, etc.

Thanks for the input!

B-

[1000RR]

Exactly... since only having gone to this track I was referring to [above] about 5 times prior and then not being at it at all over the winter, I had to remember some of the lines, etc. And that particular turn I just went in slightly deeper, and it was great. It's nothing extraordinary, but enough that I could get on the throttle more and earlier and not have to worry about running outta track. It is also on a little rise, so you don't really see the full exit till you get into the turn a little.

[TDP020]

I agree with the others. And, it sound like you're missing out some steps in your routine,
1-set speed(with throttle, after braking)
2-pick tip in point
3-turn quickly, not slowly easing into getting the bike over
4-pick apex to hit
5-look through the corner to pick exit point to hit

The deeper you go on entry, the cleaner the line for the exit, and the easier it is to do each step swiftly and the earlier you can get on the gas as the exit line is straighter.

[sfoster]

This is where a data logger would come in handy to measure the time spent in a known section of the track, with measured entry and exit speeds. I would propose that the goal is to reduce the time it takes to get from the entry point to the exit of the long sweeper, while exiting with the maximum amount of energy (speed).

If you're all over the place and messing with the the throttle, maybe you're not confident in applying throttle consistently throughout the turn. There is a long left hand sweeper at NJMP Thunderbolt that starts with a sharp right hander. The drill at the CSS school was to slow down at the entrance to the turn and concentrate on applying throttle smoothly to achieve a constant acceleration throughout the turn. Guess what. A slower entrance resulted in less time spent in that segment of the track, while greatly increasing the exit speed.

Sometimes slower is faster.

[blazer]

I'm sure confidence plays a big role. I would also venture to guess that I am also fighting a "set it and forget it" process to the turn. In other words, not going the the "steps" of the turn, but rather trying to set the bike at the beginning of the turn and then not touching anything until the exit is in sight.

B-

[RRrider]

maybe relevant, maybe not, but a comment that stuck in my head from my last CSS session was "push to initiate the turn, and then consciously stop pushing! Use your core to support yourself while you gently roll on and let the bike ride undisturbed through the turn...when you are out of the turn, then push the bar again to pick up the bike" This conscious "stop pushing and let the bike do the turn" really helped me...it also helped me to focus on my body position (lock on, core strength, body position, bent arms, etc). I found doing this helped avoid 50 pencing. FWIW.

[chipset]

Originally Posted by TDP020

I agree with the others. And, it sound like you're missing out some steps in your routine,
1-set speed(with throttle, after braking)
2-pick tip in point
3-turn quickly, not slowly easing into getting the bike over
4-pick apex to hit
5-look through the corner to pick exit point to hit

The deeper you go on entry, the cleaner the line for the exit, and the easier it is to do each step swiftly and the earlier you can get on the gas as the exit line is straighter.

I agree, but I think you have 3 and 4 mixed up. If you don't know your apex, should you really be turning the bike in?

[SPETSNAZ]

I know exactly what you mean. I had the same problem when I got my new CBR1000. The suspension was set up OEM for European 150lb rider and I am 215lb. After adjusting suspension (most shops charge $50) and taking to the track my lines got much better.
I suggest working on entry 1.set up for the turn ( you don’t want to adjust in the turn)2. Brake3.smooth entry, don’t upset the suspension and look through the turns , smooth on the throttle, balls on the tanks and “kiss” the mirror. But mainly it’s all about confidence by practicing.