Trail Braking

**AMRRA12** · 11-01-2010, 02:25 PM

im'a pull a misti here,

There was a thread started on braking but it quickly got off the subject so lets talk about the do's and don'ts on "trail braking" (braking during a turn) how does it help you, when can it hurt you and how much of it can you do till you loose the front <--- all thing being equal )

**1000RR** · 11-01-2010, 02:38 PM

Great topic... I'm certainly interested as to the do's/don'ts/why's... I trail brake on the track as it's become a habit I guess... I guess I kinda got in a habit due to over cooking some turns and just felt I needed to brake a little more (while turning in to the turn). I understand the risk but have no idea how to tell when it's too much, don't wanna really find out either

I should add - I've never been "taught" to trail brake so I'm all ears

I don't even know if I am doing it right... so "how" would be good too. I just gradually trail off the brake as I'm leaning in trying to make it a smooth release.

**AMRRA12** · 11-01-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1000RR

Great topic... I'm certainly interested as to the do's/don'ts/why's... I trail brake on the track as it's become a habit I guess... I guess I kinda got in a habit due to over cooking some turns and just felt I needed to brake a little more (while turning in to the turn). I understand the risk but have no idea how to tell when it's too much, don't wanna really find out either

I should add - I've never been "taught" to trail brake so I'm all ears

I don't even know if I am doing it right... so "how" would be good too. I just gradually trail off the brake as I'm leaning in trying to make it a smooth release.

I trail brake allot it's part of my style of riding and in doing so I have set my suspension up to give me the most feedback on the front tire as possible, my clip-ons are a direct link to what the front tire is doing or about to do. Racing or riding fast is very tactile, hearing means very little sight and feel are your greatest attributes and obviously everyone knows how important sight is but allot of people forget or just don’t understand how important feel is.

Wolielmo · 11-01-2010, 03:29 PM

Except from the fun of it, you lose some tenths of the seconds in every turn you do it. Considering 0.3 sec is a bike in front, it's not for making good results in racing. I wonder tho, does your frond loads when you do it?

**AMRRA12** · 11-01-2010, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolielmo

Except from the fun of it, you lose some tenths of the seconds in every turn you do it. Considering 0.3 sec is a bike in front, it's not for making good results in racing. I wonder tho, does your frond loads when you do it?

If your loosing time you’re doing it wrong! The best thing about trail braking is you can go in faster match apex speeds with a guys who is not as solid on the brakes and drive out.

misti · 11-01-2010, 04:58 PM

I think one of the downfalls of trailbraking is that some of the time it can create a problem with "charging turns," where a rider goes in too fast, brakes too hard and too long and is lazy with getting back on the throttle. They often have a poor sense of how to judge entry speed because they are used to carrying the brakes deep into the turn. They may be able to carry more corner speed and get on the throttle earlier and harder if they didn't trail so much.

When trailbraking is there an absolute rule about how long or how far you should trail into the corner? For example, do you always trailbrake right to the apex and why?

Misti

**AMRRA12** · 11-01-2010, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by misti

I think one of the downfalls of trailbraking is that some of the time it can create a problem with "charging turns," where a rider goes in too fast, brakes too hard and too long and is lazy with getting back on the throttle. They often have a poor sense of how to judge entry speed because they are used to carrying the brakes deep into the turn. They may be able to carry more corner speed and get on the throttle earlier and harder if they didn't trail so much.

When trailbraking is there an absolute rule about how long or how far you should trail into the corner? For example, do you always trailbrake right to the apex and why?

Misti

yes!
if your ever at a point where you’re looking at your bike thinking to yourself: “shouldn’t I be on that thing” you may have broke that rule

But IMO if you’re not on the gas or the brakes your going too slow, smooth is fast but fast is not always smooth!

he who brakes the latest and gets back on the gas fastest gets through the turn sooner! Sure you can do it wrong, you can do anything wrong

LRRS · 11-01-2010, 07:36 PM

I trail brake a lot on my race bike -- braking compresses the front end, and I start to let off the brake at turn-in. As cornering load builds, I release the brake more and more. When I feel like the suspension has had about the same amount of load on it from the peak braking force right through the apex (due progressively more and more to cornering load), it feels right.

When I did a track day on the S1000, though, I did not trail brake too much -- the bike handles well enough (for me) that I didn't need to get the front end compressed for turn in. I let the brake off (smoothly) and snapped the bike right into the turn.

Dshred · 11-02-2010, 02:22 AM

It's also good to be able to brake in the corners on the street, so when the unexpected happens you're comfortable doing it. I don't do track days yet, but I do test myself on the brakes every time I ride. I've done this for the last ten years. This year I paid attention to the people I was riding with down south, and a lot of them are not comfortable braking in the corners. Some of them only use the back brake because they're scared to touch the front. If these people really needed to jam the brakes in a corner for whatever reason, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been pretty. Sorry to get off the track talk but I thought it needed to be said.

misti · 11-05-2010, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMRRA#12

yes!
if your ever at a point where you’re looking at your bike thinking to yourself: “shouldn’t I be on that thing” you may have broke that rule

But IMO if you’re not on the gas or the brakes your going too slow, smooth is fast but fast is not always smooth!

he who brakes the latest and gets back on the gas fastest gets through the turn sooner! Sure you can do it wrong, you can do anything wrong

I agree that you should be either on the brakes or on the gas and that smooth is fast. I think fast can be smooth as well, I'd consider moto gp riders to be pretty darned smooth even though they are going so damn fast.

I also agree with idea that he who brakes the latest and gets back on the gas the fastest is going to get through the turn sooner but it is not always that cut and dry. You could have a rider that brakes at 4 brake marker but brakes HARDER and longer than the guy that started braking at the 3 brake marker. He may still be on the brakes at the apex of the corner, still slowing down, while the other guy is already rolling on the gas HARD through the turn. Guy #2 is carrying more overall corner speed through that turn and therefore going faster.

What is the reason why you need to trailbrake all the way to the apex? You said it yourself that the rider who gets back on the gas the fastest is going to get through the turn sooner so wouldn't that mean you want to roll on the throttle ASAP as opposed to AT THE APEX?

Misti