Down shifting practice

dc92974 · 09-07-2010, 07:05 PM

Last weekend I had a corner come up faster and sharper then I thought and I had to break harder then normal plus I tried to throw in a down shift. My hands/feet/head/etc got all confused. I ended up starting the turn in a gear lower then I wanted with the clutch still held in... not good

. FYI... throttle control does nothing for you if the clutch isn't engaged

Riding on the street its hard to practice that because I don't ride hard enough for it to be necessary. Even for back road spirited riding I find I usually just drop it into 2nd before the curvy stuff and then stay there till its over. Any tips for practicing braking/shifting while I'm waiting for my next track or school (CSS) day?

Steverin06 · 09-07-2010, 07:28 PM

I wouldn't recommend practicing on the street approaching a corner, braking, and catching downshifts like you do on the track.

Your timing becomes exponentially more important as your speed increases. Doing it on the street with lazy downshifts isn't going to help much, but if you find a longass straight you can get up to a good speed(ie you're going to have to break the law), brake hard to get the rear loose and practice rev-matching it will help. I wouldn't recommend doing this though, especially entering turns on the street - wait till you get on the track.

The good news is that you got the right idea when you overcooked that corner. You might have lost control of the rear if you would have just let out the clutch quickly, but you realize need engine braking to settle the bike at lean. Even with a slipper clutch, it's still a good idea to slowly disengage the clutch when aggressively downshifting and turning in. The stock slipper on this bike is the best I've ever felt, but I still feather the clutch into corners and it helps keep the rear planted.

80shilling · 09-07-2010, 08:01 PM

Even if you are not pushing hard, you can still practice your braking/shifting drill.. Sometimes it's fun to just run up and down the gearbox, seeing how perfect you can get your upshifts and downshifts..

Are you double declutching/blipping on your downshifts? I know that with slipper clutches there is basically no need to do it anymore, but I still like doing it, because it's all part of keeping my skills in top shape. The other thing to work on, is being able to brake AND AT THE SAME TIME, blip the throttle.. I have been riding for 30+ years and the ability to brake, blip the throttle and rip down the gears with my left foot, have saved my butt on numerous occasions.

What you can do, is in a straight line, upshift to 6th, then practice downshifting really quickly through the gears down to second whilst braking (quite obviously, you need to do this on a deserted piece of road.. no traffic anywhere near you) .. then back up to 6th, then practice your downshifts again, then back up, then repeat as often as you like, braking as you downshift.... The more you do it, the better you will become at it.. You can turn it into a kind of a game, where the better and quicker you do it, the more "points" you get. Once you have this down cold in a straight line, you can actively aim to repeat it with some corners thrown in on your next ride through the twisties.

What you are trying to do here in the long run, is make all of this completely "unconscious".. when you can just do what you need to do with no "thought" involved, it means you just do whatever is neccessary automatically. When you get your actions "hardwired" into your brain, it makes riding seem easier, because you have more time to get everything done, rather than having to think about what you need to do and wasting chunks of time with processing.

I ride every day and have for 20+ years.. practice is the key to becoming a technically better rider.. When you have to actively think about stuff.. it takes time to process those thoughts and come to a conclusion.... sometimes you just don't have time to spend that long coming to a decision.

kismetcapitan · 09-08-2010, 03:52 PM

true, it is good to keep proper skills in shape but with a slipper clutch, rev matching takes on a totally different meaning - meaning, I only hold the clutch in if I've chosen a gear that, if I let the clutch out, would overrev the engine past 14,000rpm. That's it.

I finish my braking and simultaneously get into the gear I want to be in for the corner before I tip in (I rarely trail brake). I just hold in the clutch long enough to make sure I'm not in an overrev situation, then I just pop the clutch out and get maintenance throttle going as I lean in.

A slipper clutch does make clutchwork stupid easy. If you get befuddled (like in a panic situation), just divide the bike in half. Left side for shifting, right side for braking. Since our brain hemispheres control different sides, eventually the right side of the brain will learn it's in charge of shifting, and the left side in charge of braking. With this psychological division, it really does become second nature - this thread actually got me to have to think about how I shift - so far as my conscious brain is concerned, it just happens by magic. All I ever think about is steering, throttle control, and braking.

misti · 09-09-2010, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80shilling

Even if you are not pushing hard, you can still practice your braking/shifting drill.. Sometimes it's fun to just run up and down the gearbox, seeing how perfect you can get your upshifts and downshifts..

Are you double declutching/blipping on your downshifts? I know that with slipper clutches there is basically no need to do it anymore, but I still like doing it, because it's all part of keeping my skills in top shape. The other thing to work on, is being able to brake AND AT THE SAME TIME, blip the throttle.. I have been riding for 30+ years and the ability to brake, blip the throttle and rip down the gears with my left foot, have saved my butt on numerous occasions.

What you can do, is in a straight line, upshift to 6th, then practice downshifting really quickly through the gears down to second whilst braking (quite obviously, you need to do this on a deserted piece of road.. no traffic anywhere near you) .. then back up to 6th, then practice your downshifts again, then back up, then repeat as often as you like, braking as you downshift.... The more you do it, the better you will become at it.. You can turn it into a kind of a game, where the better and quicker you do it, the more "points" you get. Once you have this down cold in a straight line, you can actively aim to repeat it with some corners thrown in on your next ride through the twisties.

What you are trying to do here in the long run, is make all of this completely "unconscious".. when you can just do what you need to do with no "thought" involved, it means you just do whatever is neccessary automatically. When you get your actions "hardwired" into your brain, it makes riding seem easier, because you have more time to get everything done, rather than having to think about what you need to do and wasting chunks of time with processing.

I ride every day and have for 20+ years.. practice is the key to becoming a technically better rider.. When you have to actively think about stuff.. it takes time to process those thoughts and come to a conclusion.... sometimes you just don't have time to spend that long coming to a decision.

Really good points here. You don't even need a deserted piece of road, you can go to an empty parking lot and practice going down from 3rd to second or 4th to 2nd as well. We often coach riders through braking and downshifting at CSS in a similar manner

Good luck!

Misti

dc92974 · 09-13-2010, 03:22 PM

Weather was nice this weekend so I got a chance to go out and try some slow speed shifting practice. It actually helped quite a bit, even at slow speeds (ie parking lot) the actions required going through the gears are pretty much the same. Clutch and shifter obviously work the same. Amount of throttle (blipping) required seemed about the same. The only real difference was the amount of pressure required on the brake lever, doesn't take much to slow down from 30. Even with light pressure though it was good going through the motions.

Thanks for the suggestions that helped getting over whatever piece of subconscious I have going on that results in simply holding the clutch in. I think throwing that type of practice in regularly will help me a lot.

misti · 09-13-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc92974

Weather was nice this weekend so I got a chance to go out and try some slow speed shifting practice. It actually helped quite a bit, even at slow speeds (ie parking lot) the actions required going through the gears are pretty much the same. Clutch and shifter obviously work the same. Amount of throttle (blipping) required seemed about the same. The only real difference was the amount of pressure required on the brake lever, doesn't take much to slow down from 30. Even with light pressure though it was good going through the motions.

Thanks for the suggestions that helped getting over whatever piece of subconscious I have going on that results in simply holding the clutch in. I think throwing that type of practice in regularly will help me a lot.

Awesome! Glad to hear

Even in the parking lot you can experiment a little bit with emergency braking and hard braking and downshifting. Just work up gradually until you are pulling the brake harder and harder and stopping faster.

What are some things you can do with your body position while braking/braking and downshifting that will help you have the smoothest transition possible?

Misti

dc92974 · 09-14-2010, 01:41 PM

Quote:

What are some things you can do with your body position while braking/braking and downshifting that will help you have the smoothest transition possible?

I sit up, brace myself with my legs against the tank and stiffen my arms a bit. That may keep the rear down a bit I guess... but honestly that's mostly trying to make sure I don't bounce off the gas tank and become a soprano.

misti · 09-14-2010, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc92974

I sit up, brace myself with my legs against the tank and stiffen my arms a bit. That may keep the rear down a bit I guess... but honestly that's mostly trying to make sure I don't bounce off the gas tank and become a soprano.

The bracing yourself with your legs part is really good but what happens when you stiffen your arms? Is there a way that you can still brake really hard without having your arms get tight?

Misti

dc92974 · 09-14-2010, 04:45 PM

Stiffening your arms is definitely bad because it doesn't let the front wheel move back and forth which upsets the bike.

I use my core (abs, back) to help support myself but between squeezing the brake and the pressure from slowing down I'm sure I tighten my arms up some too. Not rigid but not as loose as in a corner when you don't really need your arms much.

Thinking more about it, maybe that's another reason to sit up when breaking? If your sitting up your arms will be more stretched out putting you at a steeper angle making turning harder/akward... but would allow you to brace yourself while still allowing the front wheel to move back and forth? (Ok, now I'm just thinking out loud throwing out ideas)