FRONT END SLIDE

gixerconvert · 09-04-2010, 07:39 AM

What is the correct response to a front end slide?
(Long fast corner-track drops away i.e front unloads)

Is the answer more throttle?
Constant throttle-hope it comes back?
Or roll off slightly to load the front?
Or pick the bike up?

I rolled off slightly and stayed on! But it did get me thinking(I must point out I wasn't on the S1000 at the time,whether DTC would have made me react differently I don't know)

Being a mere mortal I presume most track handling issues can be controlled by the throttle if you can override your brain

Gives us something to talk about

Baz

BUZZ · 09-04-2010, 07:55 AM

i'd back off the throttle a bit and clench arse cheeks firmly.........

gixerconvert · 09-04-2010, 09:19 AM

I did-but posted my quickest lap ever!!

Maybe keeping cheeks closed helps with hanging off

Bam46RR · 09-04-2010, 09:45 AM

Pick it up and change your pants if your on Continentals lol

**AMRRA12** · 09-06-2010, 09:36 AM

A front-end can slide for ether reason, over weighted or under weighted, but they happen fast and there is little you can do to save them, you ether crash or you don't,

I have pushed the front many, many times! and still to this day I get on OH SH!T feeling in my gut, and thats on a front-end push and your talking about a front-end slide ...

I have saved a few with my puck or should I say I was in the right situation were my knee was weighted just enough that as it tucked I was able to push with my knee to save it. more of an "action reaction" thing rather then any supper human ability on my part.

moral of the story: rear slides, no big deal even fun, front end slides I hope your lucky and you brought extra shorts.

deef · 09-06-2010, 02:53 PM

^^^
This to hapened me on my track bike one day on the track, I did the same,Stuck right knee into the ground and wound trottle on a lil and up she came, A save !! my God and wha a save it was lol. When I came back to the pits to tel my friends they noticed one of my mushrooms had been shaven away, ha ha lol so it was true they said ha ha

kismetcapitan · 09-06-2010, 03:19 PM

I'm pretty sure Keith Code may have addressed this particular issue, but as far as I can guess, if you're not sliding on the ground (witness Casey Stoner x 500 front-end tuck-ins and him sliding off the track this season), there's a chance maybe to save it? As posted above, if you're mid-corner and running 50 degrees of lean angle, your knee is not just dragging but tucked in a bit, so you can push the bike up a bit.

Presumably, ABS (not traction control) would help prevent losing the front end, but it's not invincible - I know of at least two S1000RRs around here that went down on the street losing the front end, in the marbles on the side of the road if I'm not mistaken. ABS would only help if you lost traction due to braking too hard; it won't do crap if you're off the brakes and already leaned in and back on the throttle, and your sidewalls slide.

My best guess for saving a front-end slide, if you can react fast enough? Push HARD on the bars as if to go INTO the turn (we're normally pushing on the opposite bar countersteering), let off the throttle to stop pushing on the front, and sit up and run wide off the track. During MotoGP free practices, when guys run off the track, still upright, I've always thought that that was the case - nearly losing the front end, then un-countersteering and standing up the bike to save from sliding, or if it's not that bad, just running the corner wide.

In Stoner's defense, apparently he can't feel the front end this season; this we all know (who follows MotoGP at least). So I'm thinking he can't feel when the front's about to let go, so he can't go into whatever it is one does to save the front (which may or may not be the procedure I described above).

But if it's going to completely let go, let it be the front rather than the rear. Tucking in the front guarantees a lowside. Losing the rear, unless it's a nicely controlled powerslide, is nearly always far more catastrophic. Both Rossi and Lorenzo can attest to being catapulted off their M1s due to slipping the rear tire, and poor Tomizawa's crash started with a vicious rear slip that upset his front and then he was completely done for.

Reciprocal · 09-06-2010, 04:11 PM

On my recent shunt I was so low there was no fall, just a low side slide on the frame slider. Did not even scratch the fairing or move the mirror. It was about a 50-55 mph tight corner, I would not even say the tires broke traction, but rather the thin, gritty top layer of brand new asphalt sheared away, and the bike slid straight without rotating. There was nothing that abs or dtc or the tires can be blamed for, just rider error for carrying more speed than the available grip.

Stoner's not the only one crashing out there. It's just a consequence that if you push the edge of the envelope enough, it's going to catch you out even if your Rossi, Hayden or Bostrum. ABS and DTC are only going to help with the hamfisted mistakes.

**AMRRA12** · 09-06-2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kismetcapitan

I'm pretty sure Keith Code may have addressed this particular issue, but as far as I can guess, if you're not sliding on the ground (witness Casey Stoner x 500 front-end tuck-ins and him sliding off the track this season), there's a chance maybe to save it? As posted above, if you're mid-corner and running 50 degrees of lean angle, your knee is not just dragging but tucked in a bit, so you can push the bike up a bit.

Presumably, ABS (not traction control) would help prevent losing the front end, but it's not invincible - I know of at least two S1000RRs around here that went down on the street losing the front end, in the marbles on the side of the road if I'm not mistaken. ABS would only help if you lost traction due to braking too hard; it won't do crap if you're off the brakes and already leaned in and back on the throttle, and your sidewalls slide.

My best guess for saving a front-end slide, if you can react fast enough? Push HARD on the bars as if to go INTO the turn (we're normally pushing on the opposite bar countersteering), let off the throttle to stop pushing on the front, and sit up and run wide off the track. During MotoGP free practices, when guys run off the track, still upright, I've always thought that that was the case - nearly losing the front end, then un-countersteering and standing up the bike to save from sliding, or if it's not that bad, just running the corner wide.

In Stoner's defense, apparently he can't feel the front end this season; this we all know (who follows MotoGP at least). So I'm thinking he can't feel when the front's about to let go, so he can't go into whatever it is one does to save the front (which may or may not be the procedure I described above).

But if it's going to completely let go, let it be the front rather than the rear. Tucking in the front guarantees a lowside. Losing the rear, unless it's a nicely controlled powerslide, is nearly always far more catastrophic. Both Rossi and Lorenzo can attest to being catapulted off their M1s due to slipping the rear tire, and poor Tomizawa's crash started with a vicious rear slip that upset his front and then he was completely done for.

ABS will do nothing because it's not a braking issue it's a traction issue

wot · 09-07-2010, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kismetcapitan

if you're not sliding on the ground (witness Casey Stoner x 500 front-end tuck-ins and him sliding off the track this season), there's a chance maybe to save it? As posted above, if you're mid-corner and running 50 degrees of lean angle, your knee is not just dragging but tucked in a bit, so you can push the bike up a bit.

The moment of truth and the point of no return usually occur in the same split second....