How do you choose a turn in point?

[misti]

How do you decide when and where you are going to turn the bike? What determines whether the place you chose to turn in was a good turning point or not?

Misti

[ahmadelsayed]

What??????

[akjitsu]

Originally Posted by misti

How do you decide when and where you are going to turn the bike? What determines whether the place you chose to turn in was a good turning point or not?

Misti

Are you talking track or street? Knowlegde of exactly what's ahead matters.

[AMRRA12]

Originally Posted by misti

How do you decide when and where you are going to turn the bike? What determines whether the place you chose to turn in was a good turning point or not?

Misti

If I passed the guy in front of me, it was good

if I got passed, it was bad

[kevin_stevens]

You always work backward through a turn. Figure out where you want to be at the exit. Then figure out where you need to apex to get to that exit as expeditiously as possible. That usually sets your turn in point for you within six feet or so. Start on the conservative side and work forward.

KeS

[S1KBEEMRR]

Originally Posted by AMRRA#12

If I passed the guy in front of me, it was good

if I got passed, it was bad

Agreed...

Originally Posted by kevin_stevens

You always work backward through a turn. Figure out where you want to be at the exit. Then figure out where you need to apex to get to that exit as expeditiously as possible. That usually sets your turn in point for you within six feet or so. Start on the conservative side and work forward.

...and agreed.

IMO, turn-in and braking points go hand in hand and also depend on what school of thought you use regarding trail braking. If you use trail braking than you want to start turning in as you are letting off the brake and the brake should be all the way out when you get to full lean. If you don't trail brake, the turn-in should be the instant the brakes are fully released. If you are done braking and not turning, then your braking point was too early.

Choose wisely

[markjenn]

On the street, I stay wide until I can see the exit of the turn. This is the safest, most conservative approach and always afford you the best chance of seeing the entire turn (and approaching vehicles) as early as possible. Fast/safe street riding is about managing visibility more than anything.

On the track, I choose an apex and then backtrack to a judgment about what latest turn-in point will get me to this apex at a reasonable lean angle. Refine on successive laps using visual cues from the track. (If you can do a few laps in a car with a local track guru beside you, he/she will give you tips on lines that you'd never discover otherwise.)

- Mark

[chopt]

Turn-in point is the stage I'm concentrating on. I'm new to track days and have been riding by "the seat of your pants" technique. My last track day I was able to ride the track in the rain at a slow pace picking reference points for my turn-ins. My last few street outings in some twisties I rode with a very experienced rider and noticed he would flick it in and hold his lean angle throughout the turn while I was making adjustments. Which made me realize I was doing something wrong. Your replies will help me recognize what to look for.
Thanks,

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by chopt

Turn-in point is the stage I'm concentrating on. I'm new to track days and have been riding by "the seat of your pants" technique. My last track day I was able to ride the track in the rain at a slow pace picking reference points for my turn-ins. My last few street outings in some twisties I rode with a very experienced rider and noticed he would flick it in and hold his lean angle throughout the turn while I was making adjustments. Which made me realize I was doing something wrong. Your replies will help me recognize what to look for.

Stuff like this is very difficult to be self-taught. I'd try and do a track day with teaching involved (i.e, Calif Superbike School), its really the only way to advance you learning quickly without high risk. CSS is the best, IMHO, but most are pretty good. The key thing is that they teach from a curriculum.

- Mark

[misti]

Originally Posted by akjitsu

Are you talking track or street? Knowlegde of exactly what's ahead matters.

Either or, I'm curious to know how you guys go about choosing a turn in point and how you decide if it was a good one or not.

Originally Posted by kevin_stevens

You always work backward through a turn. Figure out where you want to be at the exit. Then figure out where you need to apex to get to that exit as expeditiously as possible. That usually sets your turn in point for you within six feet or so. Start on the conservative side and work forward.

KeS

Good suggestion!

Originally Posted by chopt

Turn-in point is the stage I'm concentrating on. I'm new to track days and have been riding by "the seat of your pants" technique. My last track day I was able to ride the track in the rain at a slow pace picking reference points for my turn-ins. My last few street outings in some twisties I rode with a very experienced rider and noticed he would flick it in and hold his lean angle throughout the turn while I was making adjustments. Which made me realize I was doing something wrong. Your replies will help me recognize what to look for.
Thanks,

Riding at a slower pace and working on picking good solid reference points for your turn points is a good start. You can choose something (like a dark patch of pavement) that lets you know it is time to turn and you can then then decide if was a good turn in point or if it needs some adjustments.

You mention that the guy you were riding with would turn the bike and then maintain that lean angle throughout the entire turn but that you were making multiple steering corrections. What does that tell you about WHERE you are turning the bike?

What happens if you turn in too early? What happens if you turn in too late?

Misti