professional instruction - what can I expect?

[noamkrief]

Hey everyone.
When I first started tracking cars, I quickly realized that I could spend years and years trying to get faster making the same mistakes over and over.

After my 3rd track day, I decided to hire a professional racecar driver to tutor me. At $500 per day it seemed like alot. After 3 separate track days with private lessons, I was able to run in advanced group during track days.

So when it comes to professional instruction - i'm completely sold!

My question is this:
How does it work on a motorcycle? With driving instruction I get instant feedback from the coach because he is talking to me, and feeling what the car is doing during the corner.

With motorcycle, an instructor can see what you are doing by either following behind you, or by reviewing video footage.

Due to not being able to "feel" and provide instantaneous in cockpit feedback, is the learning curve alot shallower in a motorcycle?

I remember specifically while getting coached in my 99 M3 I was around the corner and the rear of the car was "floating" behind me - very slight oversteer and my coach said "remember this feeling"...

Would you guys recommend private coaching or group like coaching such as the california sportsbike school?

For private coaching, how much would I expect to be charged? I'm sure the instructor would have to be on their own bike - so I'd have to spring for their track sessions + fuel as well on top of the price of the actual coaching.

PS - i'm in san diego area. Looking for instruction in auto club speedways or chuckwalla.

[Jimmyc.]

Some schools offer now the helmet communication device that a coach can follow you and tell you what you doing wrong as it happens ,but don't worry cuz having an instructor that knows what he's doing and then reviewing the video in a classroom. With you is excellent also and if you race cars a lot of their principle transfer to bike racing on the race line,to get fast you need to listen an leave your ego home and come ready to learn

[1000RR]

My first year on the track, I had one of the local fast guys coach me every time I hit the track. He and I became good friends and he taught me a LOT. The learning curve came up quick and he also saved me money in (lack of) repair bills.

Any instruction you can get will pay dividends. Many times, I will get riders come up to me asking questions and I'll offer to take the next session w/them and we'll lead/follow with frequent Pit-in's to discuss what's going on. If you go to the track and start asking some of the control riders questions, they'll follow you around and help you out... and it's free! That said, my goal was always to try and make logical sense of what they were saying so I could apply the logic to more situations... I did not just take their word for it... if it didn't make any sense, I just stored it as data... part of the key is getting w/someone that can communicate w/you and you understand them.

[misti]

Originally Posted by noamkrief

Hey everyone.
When I first started tracking cars, I quickly realized that I could spend years and years trying to get faster making the same mistakes over and over.

After my 3rd track day, I decided to hire a professional racecar driver to tutor me. At $500 per day it seemed like alot. After 3 separate track days with private lessons, I was able to run in advanced group during track days.

So when it comes to professional instruction - i'm completely sold!

My question is this:
How does it work on a motorcycle? With driving instruction I get instant feedback from the coach because he is talking to me, and feeling what the car is doing during the corner.

With motorcycle, an instructor can see what you are doing by either following behind you, or by reviewing video footage.

Due to not being able to "feel" and provide instantaneous in cockpit feedback, is the learning curve alot shallower in a motorcycle?

I remember specifically while getting coached in my 99 M3 I was around the corner and the rear of the car was "floating" behind me - very slight oversteer and my coach said "remember this feeling"...

Would you guys recommend private coaching or group like coaching such as the california sportsbike school?

For private coaching, how much would I expect to be charged? I'm sure the instructor would have to be on their own bike - so I'd have to spring for their track sessions + fuel as well on top of the price of the actual coaching.

PS - i'm in san diego area. Looking for instruction in auto club speedways or chuckwalla.

I think your experience will depend on what kind of instruction you get. As a coach with the California Superbike School (and private coach through them as well) I can tell you that we can help provide you with the improvements that you are looking for.

As you mention, the difference between a car and a motorcycle is that the coach isn't able to actually "feel" what you are doing but we are able to see, hear and discuss with you exactly what is happening on track.

At the Superbike School coaches ride with their students on track and spend time both leading and demonstrating and following and observing. From our vantage point on track we can see what you are doing in terms of lines, stability and control actions. We can hear when you roll on and off the gas, we can see if you are sneaking use of the rear brake mid turn, we can see if you are running wide or have instability on the machine. Plus, we have time after each session to debrief with you to get YOUR perception on what is going on with your riding. It may not be exactly the same as sitting IN a car with the driver but I can assure you that we notice what is going on

My suggestion to you would be to take a regular school day with the California Superbike School, ratio 3:1 or if you want to do the two day camp program (more expensive but a 2:1 student/coach ratio and more on track riding time) first. Then if you like the program, coaching and philosophy and want more individual time/instruction you can arrange through them to do a private coaching day ($750 +)

Hope that answered your question and if you have any further questions about how the school operates or what a private coaching day might consist of then ask away or PM me

Cheers,
Misti