Steering Damper Issues?

[Joker]

Took my S to track last week and had some head shaking...more than comfortable...upon hard acceleration in 2nd gear coming out of a turn and onto a high speed straight. To adjust for this I started shifting more quickly and this probably helped to keep the front end down, but I was surprised that the damper did not control it better considering all the electronics. I'm a novice so I'm looking for input. Today I heard that a BMW professional wrecked on track and thought the damper might have been the cause. Anyone else experience this?

[Devyl]

Originally Posted by Joker

Took my S to track last week and had some head shaking...more than comfortable...upon hard acceleration in 2nd gear coming out of a turn and onto a high speed straight. To adjust for this I started shifting more quickly and this probably helped to keep the front end down, but I was surprised that the damper did not control it better considering all the electronics. I'm a novice so I'm looking for input. Today I heard that a BMW professional wrecked on track and thought the damper might have been the cause. Anyone else experience this?

Is that with stock suspensions settings?

[markjenn]

Steering dampers aren't a cure all and blaming the damper when someone crashes after a tank slapper is like blaming the tires when someone crashes after a low side. A damper is a delicate compromise between reducing the risk of a tank slapper while not turning the bike into a slow-turning pig. That's why Honda has spent a lot of money to build an active damper with electronic control so they can vary the damping for the situation. And the S1000RR doesn't have this technology (yet).

Installing a damper with more damping might slightly reduce the tank-slapping tendency, but at what price in overall handling? You might just want to stick to adjusting your riding style, keeping the front end down more and consciously avoiding landing crossed up. IOW, work on smoothness.

- Mark

[Shift-Tech-Carbon]

There is no issue with the stock steering damper, sure BMW did not just hang something on there, it does it's job and the rest is up to the rider to control. Some do it better then others......

Can you update to another one? Sure you can......

[Dan Kyle]

Originally Posted by markjenn

That's why Honda has spent a lot of money to build an active damper with electronic control so they can vary the damping for the situation. And the S1000RR doesn't have this technology (yet).
Mark

And I would not want it.
The Honda CBR1000RR damper may not be as sophisticated as you give it credit for.
As far as I know it is based on speed, the faster you go the damping is increased.
Is that the way you understand it works or am I missing something?

On a bike that is used on a race track the front wheel can be in the air from time to time, you use the front wheel to balance the bike, on the CBR at speed it is hard to TURN the bars to balance the bike.

[Dan Kyle]

When I read about people using stock suspension, stock steering dampers, I shake my head.

Do you also use the stock tires at a race track?? If so I bet you will not for long.

If the stock tires are not good enought for the track, why would you believe the stock suspension or the stock steering damper is??

To me having the bike is a hobby, I want to enjoy my hobby, not struggle with riding around the parts that do not work well enought.

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by Dan Kyle

When I read about people using stock suspension, stock steering dampers, I shake my head.

Do you also use the stock tires at a race track?? If so I bet you will not for long.

If the stock tires are not good enought for the track, why would you believe the stock suspension or the stock steering damper is??

To me having the bike is a hobby, I want to enjoy my hobby, not struggle with riding around the parts that do not work well enought.

Okay, but by the same token (just like tires), if you're not riding the bike at the limit and have the knowledge to select and properly setup appropriate aftermarket pieces, then you're probably going to do worse than the stock stuff. Aftermarket isn't always better and everything is a compromise. What works best at the track often doesn't on the street. The idea that a more aggressive steering damper is a better steering damper isn't necessarily true.

- Mark

[Dan Kyle]

Originally Posted by markjenn

Okay, but by the same token (just like tires), if you're not riding the bike at the limit and have the knowledge to select and properly setup appropriate aftermarket pieces, then you're probably going to do worse than the stock stuff.

You may want to reread that, it did not make sense to me.

I would agree with you if you are saying you are not riding the bike at the limit you may not need other than stock parts.
That goes out the window as soon as you are riding the bike at a race track.

Originally Posted by markjenn

Aftermarket isn't always better and everything is a compromise. What works best at the track often doesn't on the street. The idea that a more aggressive steering damper is a better steering damper isn't necessarily true.

- Mark

Agree with aftermarket is not always better.

What is the compromise with an aftermarket damper?

So I will use an Ohlins damper as an example to be a specific aftermarket part, and as I have tried it on the S1000RR already.

There is no down side other than the cost of the damper.
As it is adjustable it works better on the street and also on the race track.

With some aftermarlket parts like an Ohlins shock or fork the only downside is the cost, they ride better on the street and are much much better at the track.

Simply setting up the OEM suspension for a specific weight would improve the OEM suspension. The stock suspension is so compromised to fit everyone and made to only have so much damping and adjustment range, to meet the companies liability concerns, neither works very well.

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by Dan Kyle

So I will use an Ohlins damper as an example to be a specific aftermarket part, and as I have tried it on the S1000RR already.

There is no down side other than the cost of the damper.
As it is adjustable it works better on the street and also on the race track.

Okay, that's your opinion about how it works for you. Fair enough. But note that with this part there is yet another adjustment that affects setup and has to be tuned by the rider which requires judgment and skill. This alone says that it may not be appropriate for all riders, let alone whether it really is universally better in all situations.

- Mark

[markjenn]

Originally Posted by Dan Kyle

And I would not want it.
The Honda CBR1000RR damper may not be as sophisticated as you give it credit for.
As far as I know it is based on speed, the faster you go the damping is increased.
Is that the way you understand it works or am I missing something?

Where did I say it was any more sophisticated than as you say? I simply said it was active and controlled electronically. It may just be speed sensitive, but since the required damping does presumably go up with speed, this may be all that is appropriate and regardless, it is certainly more sophisticated than the BMW system. Honda generally doesn't develop technologies that aren't useful.

On a bike that is used on a race track the front wheel can be in the air from time to time, you use the front wheel to balance the bike, on the CBR at speed it is hard to TURN the bars to balance the bike.

I've never used the front wheel while off the ground to "balance the bike" so I guess I'm not a candidate for a better steering damper.

- Mark