Carbon Chain Lube - BMW S1000RR Forums: BMW Sportbike Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-02-2013, 06:05 AM Thread Starter
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Carbon Chain Lube

Anyone tried this yet?
Thoughts...

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-02-2013, 06:28 AM
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Complex and expensive. Don't see much information about how it works and data to support claims. Color me skeptical that if it works at all that it is worth all this trouble.

- Mark
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-02-2013, 08:02 AM
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so your pressing a solid object up against the chain the entire time your riding in order to lubricate it. No thanks.

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-02-2013, 11:07 AM
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Now, I really like my Carbon, but seriously??????
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-02-2013, 12:47 PM
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I'm not going to knock it, technology makes old ways of doing things obsolete; nonetheless, where's the data sheet and test info?
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-02-2013, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by symplee511 View Post
I'm not going to knock it, technology makes old ways of doing things obsolete; nonetheless, where's the data sheet and test info?
That's the issue here - if you do a search for "carbon chain lube" all you get are folks pitching the product and a few people saying it sounds cool. If dry carbon lube was really a great way to lube chains, I suspect we'd have heard about it a long time before now in all kinds of applications apart from motorcycling.

Then there is the physics of the thing. Liquid lubricants, by their nature are going to find their way into the tight spaces where lube is required. Some dry migration might be expected with this carbon system, but not nearly as much as liquid. They sorta explain this away in their FAQ by saying that modern X-ring and O-ring chains don't really require internal lubrication - that all they're supplying is the lubricant that reduces metal-to-metal surface wear between the sprocket and chain rollers. The problem here is that this wear isn't typically the governing factor in chain life.

The appeal of a "dry lubricant" is that is conjures up images of cleanliness - that any extra is going to blow away as dust, rather than stick around and attract dirt. But for a dry dust to stick around and do its job, it's got to have some stickiness about it and if the lube is sticky enough to stay on the chain, then it is probably sticky enough to make a mess and attract dirt as well.

In short, chain lube works because it is sticky and flows where it is needed. It works because it is messy. I don't think you can get rid of the messiness and still have something that works.

Having said all this, maybe this is the next great thing and these guys are onto something. But I consider it unlikely and the dearth of hard data or any kind of technical information doesn't bode well. On the surface, this looks like snake oil.

And who wants to put this contraption on their bike for $220 + shipping from Europe?



- Mark

Last edited by markjenn; 01-02-2013 at 04:53 PM.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-02-2013, 06:02 PM
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Well said Mark....
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-03-2013, 04:15 AM
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Wunderlich also do this:

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-11-2013, 09:42 PM
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Just FYI- I'm not saying it's better or worse than liquid lubrication, just giving info:

"Dry Carbon Lubricant" has been around for at years and years (at least 20), outside of the motorsports arena.

As one example that does relate to chains and gears: it's used by mechanics on high-end bicycles, where gears are actually made out of titanium and aluminum alloy and in some very rare occasions- carbon fiber. Oddly enough, they cost much more than motorcycle sprockets and are cleaned after each training ride and/or race, at the professional / high-amateur level.

This is the first product that I've seen that keeps a block of carbon constantly in touch with the chain, but it makes sense. It's not carbon fiber, mind you, which is commonly mixed with other materials such as titanium, aluminum, kevlar, epoxy resin, etc. and would certainly destroy your chain very quickly.

This substance has the consistency, (as it's made out of a similar material), of pencil lead (which of course no longer has any lead in it, but is rather made out of graphite). Imagine a large block of pencil lead/graphite, and you'll get the idea of the consistency. Under light pressure it impregnates just about anything and turns into a very slick substance.

To get a sense of what this product does to your chain, take a pencil, and scribble or fill in a small square on a piece of paper. Then take your finger and rub the square you just filled in. You'll get a finger full of graphite, that is shiny and slippery. It's the same concept here.

Does it take away watts / horsepower from your bike? Possibly. Is it enough to measure? You'd likely have to have the most sensitive dyno in the world. At worst I'd guess it takes away a maximum of 30 watts and a minimum of 10 watts. Convert that into horsepower...it's around .01% of 1 hp (I'm using fuzzy math here, but you can google a conversion calculator quite easily).

I'm sure this product works quite well, but its delivery system is not the prettiest thing in the world. Though the science behind it is sound and has been in use for many years, in the motorcycle world. Dry carbon / graphite lube is nothing new...of course everyone says their lube is the best and everyone has the studies to prove it.

At the end of the day, it's important to keep your chain properly lubed no matter the delivery system used.

Again, just FYI...
W
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-12-2013, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfgang View Post
Just FYI- I'm not saying it's better or worse than liquid lubrication, just giving info:

"Dry Carbon Lubricant" has been around for at years and years (at least 20), outside of the motorsports arena.

As one example that does relate to chains and gears: it's used by mechanics on high-end bicycles, where gears are actually made out of titanium and aluminum alloy and in some very rare occasions- carbon fiber. Oddly enough, they cost much more than motorcycle sprockets and are cleaned after each training ride and/or race, at the professional / high-amateur level.

This is the first product that I've seen that keeps a block of carbon constantly in touch with the chain, but it makes sense. It's not carbon fiber, mind you, which is commonly mixed with other materials such as titanium, aluminum, kevlar, epoxy resin, etc. and would certainly destroy your chain very quickly.

This substance has the consistency, (as it's made out of a similar material), of pencil lead (which of course no longer has any lead in it, but is rather made out of graphite). Imagine a large block of pencil lead/graphite, and you'll get the idea of the consistency. Under light pressure it impregnates just about anything and turns into a very slick substance.

To get a sense of what this product does to your chain, take a pencil, and scribble or fill in a small square on a piece of paper. Then take your finger and rub the square you just filled in. You'll get a finger full of graphite, that is shiny and slippery. It's the same concept here.

Does it take away watts / horsepower from your bike? Possibly. Is it enough to measure? You'd likely have to have the most sensitive dyno in the world. At worst I'd guess it takes away a maximum of 30 watts and a minimum of 10 watts. Convert that into horsepower...it's around .01% of 1 hp (I'm using fuzzy math here, but you can google a conversion calculator quite easily).

I'm sure this product works quite well, but its delivery system is not the prettiest thing in the world. Though the science behind it is sound and has been in use for many years, in the motorcycle world. Dry carbon / graphite lube is nothing new...of course everyone says their lube is the best and everyone has the studies to prove it.

At the end of the day, it's important to keep your chain properly lubed no matter the delivery system used.

Again, just FYI...
W
Thanks for your observations, but rubbing pencil lead and noting that it feels slippery isn't much of a test of whether this is a good way to lube a chain on a 180-hp motorcycle. If it works that well as a general chain lubricant, I would think it would have found much wider use in a wide variety of applications apart from bicycle racing with titanium and carbon fiber cogs that are serviced after each race.

Again, interesting observations, but like the web site of the folks selling this thing, this is way, way short of any hard information that shows that the "science behind it is sound".

- Mark

Last edited by markjenn; 02-12-2013 at 04:48 PM.
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