After my running-in check I noticed later on that there's tooling from when they tightened the steering head. Is this normal at dealers or should I get this fixed?
It's completely normal. What they should have done is used a 6 sided socket not 12 and also use a plastic insert to protect the nut. Also maksing tape the trop triple to prevent scratches. If you do argue with them about having it replaced, they will say its caused by the tools. You can argue that they didn't use protection (haha). You will just get a bad rep within the dealership as you are complaining about something small and superficial. Its a nut that has to be removed to retorque the headstem and its very visible to the eye. Your call. Personally, I wouldn't bother.
Thanks for the advice man. I'm gonna be moving away from that dealership anyways so I wouldn't mind. They also forgot to take the rev limiter off. ::meh::
What can rep get you at the dealership? Asking cause I'm new to this game. I'm thinking it's similar to how people will spit in your food if you're rude in restaurants, yah?
Some customers don't care at all about the dealer and the techs. I'm a tech and I find that if the customer is fair and reasonable then I will go the extra mile when servicing and looking after their bike. Same goes for the service manager with your warranty and getting discounts. If you want to be a flog and mouth off and carry on then they are only going to make things harder for you. Sure if they do something wrong then you have every right to say something because you are paying good money to have the job done right. But sometimes it only takes one complaint and they write you off.
If they forgot to take the rev limiter off I would be going back and complaining about both. The nut is a small thing. The rev limit is not. Unacceptable.
I'm the guy that don't care whether the tech eats dinner or not, particularly if they scratch, mar or damage my bike in any way what so ever. That isn't normal, from a tech with a big cresent wrench it might be normal, but sorry who ever worked on your bike was a careless hack and can eat that nut and top clamp. Maybe he'll buyou the proper tools after realizing people don't pay 20k for a bike only to have some tard mess it up...
Bad reputation? Good there's other dealers that can either do it correctly or I'll keep burning bridges.
If you think that's normal Benny, you will not work on my bike. Seriously that is visible damage and it will always be NORMAL to a tech who doesn't care. No way in hell is rounding off a nut and scratching a top clamp normal. I'm actually quite surprized you of all people would would pass that off as normal, but you're a tech so I guess I shouldn't be.. LOL!!!!
When I say it's normal. I say it's normal because most techs don't give a $hit. If the tech was taking care it wouldn't of happened. Do you think I would do such a thing? You clearly don't know me. It's very easy to damage those nuts if you slip as they are done up to 100Nm. If you cover the top triple with tape and use a plastic insert in the socket you don't get that problem. Personally it doesn't bother me to know a nut has some small marks on it when its obviously made to be undone and done up again. Not everything stays pristine when a tool has undone or done it back up. Some customers are ignorant when it comes to this.
Is that normal? No. Visible tool marks on fasteners are a sign that a mistake was made. Can tool marks be avoided? No. Any time a tool touches a fastener it leaves a mark. They however should not be obvious to the naked eye. Tool marks of that level should only appear after many many YEARS of operation and adjustment.
Should you say anything. It really depends. How's your relationship with the dealer? How bad does it bug you? What kind (track,street, condition) of bike is this on? How do you plan on going about asking for a replacement?
I have two RR's. One's a street bike and one's a rather well equipped track machine. Both are pristine with lots of HP parts on them. If this happened to one of my bikes I would probably mention it. I have a really good relationship with my dealer and they are good guys. The way I would approach it is to talk to the service advisor and say "Hey. I know this is kind of silly but those tool marks bug the crap out of me because I have to look at them all the time. If I were to buy the nut could I come in one afternoon and have you guys swap it for me and not charge me for the labor". Knowing the guys at my dealership they would refuse to give me the part number and say "come in we will take care of that for free. Somebody was in too much of a hurry."
If my bikes were less than absolutely pristine I would not really worry about it. The tool marks aren't that bad and you probably won't notice after a while.
What I would NOT do is put the dealer on the defensive and call their work sloppy or nit pick. You don't want to develop the reputation of being petty about little things. Being detail oriented is one thing but being petty about little stuff can really damage your relationship with a dealership. Some people are probably asking "Why should I care those people work for me". Having a good and positive relationship with your dealer is important when it comes to gray areas where they have to make a judgment. It's a lot easier to see your version of the facts when there's a good relationship. If there's not a good relationship there's no trust and there's more suspicion of you trying to "pull one over on them". Plain and simple human nature.
Let's NOT forget, this is a BMW! BMW would NOT let something like that go on a new m4, nor should it be an issue with their bikes. I'm sure that if the dealer does not respond in a positive manner, I'd call BMW and find their area manager and ask him to make it right.
Sorry, I'm very brash on this particular subject because I had a very very bad experience with my 2009 Yamaha Road Liner. I took it in for an annual and a new rear tire, the dealer put a new, very green tech on the bike after a requested an experienced tech. I got the bike back the next day with $1900, yes 19 hundred! in damage. They expected me to ride into the sunset, guess again!!
Benny you shouldn't be insulted if you don't do this kind of thing, I apologize if you took it that way, but please don't say it's normal.
*SIGH*. This is not ideal, and pretty small; but it probably shouldn't have happened and it bothers you. I'd bring it to the attention of the service team--you should really do that anyway, just to help them understand and improve. The approach is really important. You can't walk in and say: Man, this is messed up and I didn't bring it in this way. As someone else said, that will make them defensive and it won't help you or them. My approach is: I know this is small to a lot of people, but it matters to me. I really don't think this came in here this way. Is there anything we can do to fix this? Discuss from that point, and advocate your position, but be polite and respectful...stuff happens. These things USUALLY work out.
I'll also provide the other side of the coin. These guys have a lot to deal with and a lot of flaky customers. I was at the BMW service counter a few weeks ago and some guy brings his bike in and flips out, yelling that the service techs put a dent in his tank and he didn't realize until after he was home. He wanted them to fix it and wanted a rental bike. They allowed him to vent, pulled up his service records, talked with the technician (who seemed very responsible) and basically advocated their position that they were sure the dent was there before service and not caused the technician. 45 minutes later he calmly left, reasonably accepting, but he was told no. I don't think he was exactly dishonest--I think he hadn't paid attention to his relatively new used bike. The service tech lead said they were trying to get cameras in the garage and even considering taking pictures of every bike that entered the garage, as they wanted visual records to protect themselves from this type of situation--it happens relatively frequently.
This guy was a dick. The amount of force you would need to put a dent in the fuel tank is noticeable. I work 4 weeks on 1 week off ATM so I go over my bike with a fine tooth comb before I head back to work. I appreciate my dealer and they under stand that they put the first scratch on my new bike but they definitely accommodate me for that. The bikes about to go and sit with them for another month for new tyres and a heap of stuff I couldn't be bothered providing but you can be bet it won't be coming back with any damage as it gets used for a demo bike in the display rooom.
I don't think it matters what brand name is on it, yes things get marred when they get worked on, but that damage looks like sloppy work to me. As Benny said, that wouldn't happen if he worked on it, he would have protected the nut, the person that worked on your bike was sloppy, I don't think it's wrong to expect a certain level of workmanship. Furthermore, if they're that sloppy with something that is out in the open, what kind of workmanship is going to happen where it does not show. I would definitely talk to the service manager and voice your concerns, it should be a non issue for them to fix it. In saying that, I would approach it with them in a respectful manner.
In reference to customers having a bad reputation...... And with all due respect, that kind of thinking is what lost BMW my business. I used to be a tech, not for BMW, but I did the job I was being paid to do as best I could regardless of what I thought of the asshole that owns the bike. Now I might beat on his bike a little more then usual on the test ride...0
To the guy with the damaged nut....if they don't replace it you can dress that down with a small file or erasure stone. Take your time, look at the light as it reflects off the bevel you're making on it to keep it even along the flats. They should replace that. Is it nitpicking? Yup, but you're they guy that shelled out thousands of dollars for a perfect BMW motorcycle. It was perfect when you took it in, it damn sure should be perfect when you get it back if not better.
In reference to customers having a bad reputation...... And with all due respect, that kind of thinking is what lost BMW my business. I used to be a tech, not for BMW, but I did the job I was being paid to do as best I could regardless of what I thought of the asshole that owns the bike.
I'm not sure about the dealers you went to but my dealer does not care "who" owns what. They do the same high quality level of service on every single bike they get. From GS's covered in mud that they have to pressure wash to even work on to spotlessly clean RR's like mine that only get ridden on the track and are cleaned before and after each day at the track.
I have a good relationship with my dealer but my bike gets no "preferential treatment" vs any other customer bike that comes in for service. Including the customers who are a pain to deal with and who try to cheat them.
My dealer does not even care that my track RR regularly gets work done by race shops and suspension shops. They never once have tried to use the "aftermarket" cop out on me and regularly remove and reinstall my carbon race bodywork to service the bike. They never have charged me extra labor either. They gladly work "around" my add on's. In fact the only comment I have ever gotten about any of my add on's is when they discovered the autoblipper that I added. The comment was not "we won't warranty your bike". It was "man that's cool as heck. where did you get that done".
It's really easy to make assumptions about a dealer based on the short time you deal with them. Next time you are in for service spend some time and hang out and ask to shadow one of the mechanics. I regularly do this and am impressed and amazed at the level of care that they take with customer bikes. Even when I quietly slip in and they don't know someone is watching.
The people at dealerships are regular people just like you and I. Many of them are also fellow riders. Several of them have joined us at the track and we had a blast! People who work at dealerships deal with a lot of stuff and have a very tough job. The sales people work long hours sitting around from open to close waiting for walk in customers even in the off season and have to move bikes daily. The service people regularly get yelled at and have to just put up with it. They endure this because of their love of motorcycles and the ability to assist customers with their passions. They aren't highly paid and money is not what they are motivated by. Cut them a break!
This is getting long so one last point. Take what you have dealt with at car dealers and toss that out the window. When's the last time a motorcycle dealer in general tried to "up-sell you" on work you did not need? When's the last time they tried to scaremonger you into trading in? The motorcycle industry in general does not stoop to the tactics that car dealers do. Why? Motorcycle owners are way more knowledgeable than car owners. Motorcycles as well are want based purchases rather than need based purchases. Because of this it's a completely different world. The dealer is not marking up new bikes more than 5K expecting you to negotiate. They aren't doing $19.99 oil changes and trying to make up for the loss by up-selling you. They aren't sizing you up and deciding how deep your pockets are when you walk onto the showroom either because motorcyclists come in all shapes sizes and incomes and we are almost impossible to "read". Car dealers survive by becoming more sleazy while motorcycle dealers often have to close their doors when there's not enough business. It's a way more honest way of doing business because it has to be. Personally I wish the car business was more like the motorcycle business. Need vs want unfortunately.
Purely amateur. BMW prides themselves on being a higher echelon car company and they charge accordingly for vehicles, parts, and service. If you drove or leased a car from the dealership and did something like that to their "property" you know damn well they'd ding you for when you returned it. Nuts, bolts, and screws are about the most basic of functions of mechanical skills and they should possess it at a minimum.
Can you bring your RR to a BMW car dealer for service? No.
Can you bring a BMW car to a BMW motorcycle dealer for service? No.
Completely different people work at each. Take a look at the last paragraph of the post above for more detail on this subject.
The car business and motorcycle business are completely different. I agree with you completely that car dealers in general are a bunch of vicious greedy bastards. I have been looking to replace my Range Rover with a newer X5 for a while now and have been thwarted more than once by less than honest dealerships.
As far as having a good relationship with the dealsership goes, in my experience due to the fact that i drop in often enough for spare parts, serving two bikes, buying other parts and accessories etc i am well looked after on price and service.
I know the Motorrad sales manager, his team, the Service manager, head bike tech, spare parts guys and the lifestyle girl.
I have owned, BMW, GMC,Honda, Porsche, Hummer, Jeep, Nissan, Ford, Ducati, Kawasaki, GM, and Can -Am, because I'm old...I would hold BMW responsible for a scratch on my 335i much more than I would GMC on my truck. Just like M-Coupe said, BMW is held to a much higher standard, as they should be. They EARNED it. We should expect nothing less from an Authorized BMW Service Center.
Just a comment here. Motorcycles are not the same as cars. The supply and service chains for cars are much better developed and have much stronger economic incentives. As one example, a certified motorcycle tech will make much less than a tech at a car dealership, at least in the US. So I don't feel the reference for a BMW car is valid. That doesn't dismiss that our bikes deserve quality care--they surely do--but motorcycle maintenance / service is not on the same level as that of car, which have much higher volume and more economic incentives.
Gouges on the top of the nut are the result of sloppy work, period. Scratches on the top of the triple clamp could have easily been avoided. Again, sloppy work. Dismissing these kinds of things is just another step down the road to mediocrity. How hard would it have been to lay a rag on top of the top clamp before tightening the nut? The gouges on the top of the nut is just a hack job, plain and simple.
Thanks gents for all the views and suggestions. The service manager replied that the bike should not have left in that condition and ordered the nut and triple clamp and will be replaced on them.
I'm glad it ended well for you. I personally would never "call out" my shop on that. At best I would mention it in passing and see what they said. Overall I don't really care for a few nicks and marrs. It's a bike. Gravel does more damage to mine than a tech ever feasibly could (though...me trying services on my own might total it). That being said, each of our bikes are our own personal bikes. If it bothers you, tell them. But be gentle about it if you want to maintain a relationship with the shop/dealer.
I am not surprised, unfortunately the techs at dealers don't care.....especially if it is warranty work.... I had the worst of experiences two times in a row at the closest dealer to me... I avoid going to the dealer at all costs but I went there as a referral of a good customer of theirs.... two times super unhappy ... so I am not buying my new bike from them as well!
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