Does DTC/ABS hamper rider development?

[usrodeo4]

Still waiting on my 2012 and admittedly I haven't ridden in years, but in reading posts here for a couple weeks now I am constantly struck by comments that make me wonder if riders of TC/ABS aren't losing out on opportunities to get to know there bikes at the limits of traction. My last bike I would constantly lock up the rear wheel on braking just to feel it slide either right or left and get comfortable with it, same thing with the front brake, no lock ups but feeling the rear tire raise and getting used to that at different speeds ...same thing on acceleration, I wanted to hang the rear end out on command to get to know how the bike felt as it approached and went past loss of traction. To me that is what kept me safe in high speed corners...I had a feel for how the bike felt as it started losing traction.

I'm not saying TC/ABS isn't a good product on a dark cold wet road when a deer runs out or a car slams its brakes...I just think some modern riders are missing an oppurtunity to become more proficient by thinking a tire sliding is something to avoid at all costs. Thoughts???

[RIQUE]

I understand what you are saying. Personally I feel it was important for me to learn on a non TC,ABS bike just so you know what to do if the rear wheel locks or slides but there is no going back for me. As a friend told me once about the S1000RR...this bike has skills.

[MotoMadMan]

Isn't that why they give you the different modes? I think you will be ok. This stuff let's inexperienced people ride a bike they couldn't normally handle. That should means you + s1000rr = awesome

[pimpedc6]

I think that the ABS makes you lazy on using the rear brake. It also takes out all of the guesswork on how hard you can hammer the brakes and not wreck.

The TC on the otherhand might keep you from a big wreck. Everyone should know what it feels like to start to loose the front or rear end.

TC and ABS are the wave of the future. In another 5 years, do you think a sportbike will be made without them?

I thought about selling my 2007 R1 after I bought the BMW. I like the rugged feel of the bike without TC, ABS, and Quickshifter. It definitely takes more skill to use ride the R1 fast. The BMW is just effortless with all of the gizmos.

I have mixed emotions. I love each one in their own way. TC and ABS dont replace riding skills but they do enhance them. I do feel more comfortable riding the BMW fast because the TC adds a little safety net. The BMW also has very little engine braking. Other liter bikes without TC can leave the rear wheel spinning wildly on downshifts....

Mixed emotions about it I suppose.

[kuroshio]

I don't think ABS harms learning to brake so long as the rider understands the system. I think it helps actually. I look at seeing the ABS light come on as a failure to control, without the disastrous effects. Then I can look back at the situation, figure out what I did wrong and correct it. Except then I can do it while drinking a beer instead of having an IV drip.

A bad rider will rely on it coming on to him safe. A good rider will rely on his skills to keep it from coming on at all

[AMRRA12]

There is a fine line between a tool and a crutch.

[Torasin]

I ride in race mode most of the time and that will let you have some slip but at the same time won't let it get out of control. I turn the abs off from time to time and do hard breaking practice but on more then 1 occasion having abs on has allowed me to get out of a situation with my wife on the back that would have been hit and miss without.

[lobelsteve]

I think a lot has to do with prior riding experience. My prior Nighthawk S and VF1100 Sabre did not prepare me for sport bike riding or litre bike performance of the S1000. If I did not have the TC or ABS, I may have already wrecked. I know what it's like having the rear slide from the Nighthawk, but have never locked a wheel or done a wheelie. Well- the BMW wheelie thing is pretty cool, but that's just with cranking the throttle in first or second and when it hits 10000 rpm the wheel comes up a few inched and lowers down. I need a CR250 to screw around in the dirt for the learning the sliding and locking and crashing stuff.

[dattaway]

ABS, DTC, wheelie control, and the slipper clutch can really hide the personality of the tires and physics of the bike.

[1000RR]

Originally Posted by dattaway

ABS, DTC, wheelie control, and the slipper clutch can really hide the personality of the tires and physics of the bike.

+1...

This passed season I raced an '03 R6 w/no nannies or slipper or anything. It taught me a LOT about the proper way to ride a bike and if you didn't, it would let you know FAST. The biggest thing modern bikes take advantage of is the slipper. If I didn't blip just right coming into a couple of the turns, damn did that rear end get angry with me... got passed a couple times due to running wide due to all the wheel hop/chirp/chatter. For the last race day, I had installed a nice Yoyodyne slipper and went from concentrating on the blip to concentrating on everything else I should be... and she would start to back herself into the hairpin on our track, which was a bit fun.

Knowing what a bike w/out the nannies does (and in essence how you need to react) is a very good thing. As AMRRA said, there is a fine line between a tool and a crutch. I see this is another shift where newer riders will be born with all these goodies and that's what they'll be telling their kid's kids... "When I grew up riding, we only had DTC and ABS, none of this other BS you guys have on your bikes". Look at the younger generations now compared to what some of us did or didn't have growing up. Just a sign of the times...

But back to the OP, IMO, knowing what a bike does w/out nannies is a great and beneficial thing. Riding with them, I think what you need to do is when the DTC or ABS kick in, don't take it for granted, try and understand why and then ask yourself was I using it as a crutch or an aid/tool... if it is the former, try and figure out what went wrong and what you could do to change that in the future.